What is missing from Drum Corps today

[JamMan]

To summarize (and sorry for the long ramble): We are getting what we reward. Until we change what we reward, we will get more of the same...cautious, over-engineered, generic, and generally boring shows. What we should be rewarding: risk taking; real emotional connection generated by great music performed at an outstanding performance level; in short, total drum corps ### kicking. I miss it. We all should.

ALLELUJAH! I miss when the majority of corps had bad*** shows. That's what drum corps was all about for me. Yet we many corps (Crown, Cavaliers, Bluecoats) playing "safe" shows they know people wont hate (and maybe in some cases, like). BUT, their shows of late pale in comparison to legendary shows like Madison '95 and Cadets '00 (to name only a few).

Well gee, George....howzabout stop pushing for things like electronics that only ADD to the cost??

That cost is negligible. Way to wear your opinion on your sleeve!

[Lance]

Well, we've never had at any given point in the activity " all shows programmed to get the same response from a crowd ", so there is little to fear that we'll see that sort of change any time in the near or distant future.

If you agree that not all shows are programmed to get the same response from the crowd, then it would be moronic to have a standard set of criteria for all shows that are supposed to measure the response of the crowd.

Again, what would the standard be that the judge uses to measure audience reaction?

And Judging " audience reaction " it seems to me is no less subjective than judging any execution caption from a booth 100 yards away from where the executed move on the field below was being made.

Other than in order to be even reasonably fair, one requires mind reading and the other doesn't. Not everybody reacts with a standard set of oral expletives or physical gesticulations, and I would hope you would consider that it's possible to have very strong reactions to shows without them.

[BRASSO]

If you agree that not all shows are programmed to get the same response from the crowd, then it would be moronic to have a standard set of criteria for all shows that are supposed to measure the response of the crowd.

Again, what would the standard be that the judge uses to measure audience reaction?

Other than in order to be even reasonably fair, one requires mind reading and the other doesn't. Not everybody reacts with a standard set of oral expletives or physical gesticulations, and I would hope you would consider that it's possible to have very strong reactions to shows without them.

The criteria the judge would use to measure " audience reaction " would be the same intuitive tools all successful commercial performers use when they gauge an audience response to their performance that night. They know when they connected with the audience that night and when they did not compared with other nights performances and with a different audience. Ask ANY successful performer...... they know when they connected. And this is true if the performance is a rousing emotional one, or is a quiet, contemplative, intellectual type show. They just know. Ask them. They'll tell you. They know when they connected, and when they did not........ and keep in mind that " connecting with the audience " would only be a portion of the overall point credit given. Right now, as I'm sure you are aware, " audience reaction " to the DCI units show is irrelevant in the scoring. ( and this is the antithesis of what successful commercial performers and show designers aspire to FIRST and FOREMOST and above all else )

Edited January 8, 2010 by BRASSO

[Jeff Ream]

On the same token, is it really such a radical idea that "the crowd" has varied tastes?

And as much as I appreciate what Hopkins said in his blog, I still think a lot of it has to do with how he percieved the Cadets 09 show and how it ended up placing., and maybe not quite as much with DCI as a whole as we might like to think.

I don't know, and you raise a point as I remember his musings in I think it was the 01-03 era.

I'm not saying you have to play broadway, jazz, pop tunes...but make us want to stand up and scream. 1999 DCI finals is the last time I went to a DCI show of any kind and felt like every show made me want to stand up and cheer, even if just at the ending. Since then a few have ( and fewer every year) and now it seems like half get me to stand after every corps because it's the polite thing to do.

of course, he got a lot of flack for his 06-08 shows too.

or...Hop is becoming that kind of "fan" he has mocked on his blog for several years now

[azul]

Well gee, George....howzabout stop pushing for things like electronics that only ADD to the cost??

Well I feel the synth might save some $$$. Imagine if Boston had to really buy a Citar or Bluecoats a harp and accordion? Those were only some of the acceptable ways electronics were used this year I felt.

[Dmlkmen]

When reading the OP, there was a Drum Corps Wolrld article I recalled reading in 2007, that was very similiar. I found the link for it. Its a long read, but its a good one. This is about two views of the activity between Scott Stewart and Geroge Hopkins in 1997, in the expectation of what was to be in 2002, for DCI's 30th Anniversary.

http://www.drumcorpsworld.com/articles.cfm?ID=213

Edited January 8, 2010 by Dmlkmen

[jpaul]

The criteria the judge would use to measure " audience reaction " would be the same intuitive tools all successful commercial performers use when they gauge an audience response to their performance that night. They know when they connected with the audience that night and when they did not compared with other nights performances and with a different audience. Ask ANY successful performer...... they know when they connected. And this is true if the performance is a rousing emotional one, or is a quiet, contemplative, intellectual type show. They just know. Ask them. They'll tell you. They know when they connected, and when they did not........

But you're asking a third party to evaluate to what extent the audience was moved and to compare that to their responses to several other performances. I don't see a reliable way to do that. A judge can only hope to accurately measure their own response, not anyone else's.

and keep in mind that " connecting with the audience " would only be a portion of the overall point credit given. Right now, as I'm sure you are aware, " audience reaction " to the DCI units show is irrelevant in the scoring. (and this is the antithesis of what successful commercial performers and show designers aspire to FIRST and FOREMOST and above all else)

Who says the goals are the same? I've never attended a "commercial" entertainment event that was given a numerical score.

[chaos001]

I don't know, and you raise a point as I remember his musings in I think it was the 01-03 era.

I'm not saying you have to play broadway, jazz, pop tunes...but make us want to stand up and scream. 1999 DCI finals is the last time I went to a DCI show of any kind and felt like every show made me want to stand up and cheer, even if just at the ending. Since then a few have ( and fewer every year) and now it seems like half get me to stand after every corps because it's the polite thing to do.

of course, he got a lot of flack for his 06-08 shows too.

or...Hop is becoming that kind of "fan" he has mocked on his blog for several years now

i think he was going through a midlife crisis at that time...at least that would explain the reason for doing those shows.

Edited January 8, 2010 by chaos001

[Lance]

The criteria the judge would use to measure " audience reaction " would be the same intuitive tools all successful commercial performers use when they gauge an audience response to their performance that night. They know when they connected with the audience that night and when they did not compared with other nights performances and with a different audience. Ask ANY successful performer...... they know when they connected. And this is true if the performance is a rousing emotional one, or is a quiet, contemplative, intellectual type show. They just know. Ask them. They'll tell you. They know when they connected, and when they did not........ and keep in mind that " connecting with the audience " would only be a portion of the overall point credit given. Right now, as I'm sure you are aware, " audience reaction " to the DCI units show is irrelevant in the scoring. ( and this is the antithesis of what successful commercial performers and show designers aspire to FIRST and FOREMOST and above all else )

Okay, yes. I agree with a lot of this. I just think that it's difficult to put an ostensibly objective score to the way a crowd reacts, and I say that especially as a performer who has played very popular works that elicit hugely different, yet positive, reactions from an audience. And it's been the same with me witnessing performances as well, of course. I think it's hust the nature of anything remotely creative...if it's good.

[supersop]

I'm still waiting for a true "STAGE" show. One that is about mood rather than formula. One that uses every corner of the field for staging rather than just the front and center portion. I'm waiting for a 13 minute seamless production that doesn't have 4 or 5 movements ... but concentrates on one body of work (ala SCV 09), yet is not siingular in it's mood. I think it's fine to run your bumm off for 2 minutes ....... but I don't need it for 13 minutes. I do need you to play your guts out for 13 minutes. No matter how minimalistic or how complex ... make MUSIC that will be talked about forever.

Someone will really do it someday ... Star 93 was the closest thing to it. I think shows like Star 93 and Suncoast 88 started a trend that is now being realized, but the emotion is completely lost now. That's why the current shows don't work so well. They have no soul.