JimF-LowBari Posted January 25, 2010 Share Posted January 25, 2010 If all we want to do is have them hear the positives, eventually the applause will ineviteably be seen by our youth as hollow, phoney, and worse yet........... meaningless. Not to mention the total freak out when they get honest/needed criticism in their later lives. Jeez, ya mean these corps members never hear criticism from staff during the season? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BRASSO Posted January 25, 2010 Share Posted January 25, 2010 (edited) Not to mention the total freak out when they get honest/needed criticism in their later lives. Jeez, ya mean these corps members never hear criticism from staff during the season? The best ideas for change rarely spring from the top of organizations. They almost always spring from below. Maybe the Colonists should have just trusted King George just a little bit more. He was afterall, King, and he knew what was needed in the Brittish Empire more than those pesky, peasant- farmers of his that never ran much of anything and were always complainng about this or that. Edited January 25, 2010 by BRASSO Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
perc2100 Posted January 25, 2010 Share Posted January 25, 2010 The best ideas for change rarely spring from the top of organizations. They almost always spring from below. Maybe the Colonists should have just trusted King George just a little bit more. He was afterall, King, and he knew what was needed in the Brittish Empire more than those pesky, peasant- farmers of his that never ran much of anything and were always complainng about this or that. GREAT analogy: comparing DCI Board of Directors to King George! Let me take it up a bit further: maybe the rest of the world should've just trusted Hitler, since he was the dictator of Germany and quickly gaining respect of most of the world (US included). Look at that: thread = done Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
perc2100 Posted January 25, 2010 Share Posted January 25, 2010 So the logic at work here in your opinion is that if a person who might have marched once says " synths arn't real Drum Corps ", those comments do not have " legitimacy", because that poster hasn't " sat on a DCI Board or have been the Director of a Drum and Bugle Corps" ? What if the " Director of a Drum and Bugle Corps" or someone who once " sat on the DCI Board of Directors " decided that saxophones could be used in DCI Field competitions ? Would the " legitimacy " of their lofty position give them your unwavering support ? That they'd know what's best for both the activity a whole ,as well as knowing what's best for you as a fan ? Not at all Here's what I posted (which you quoted but possibly missed): I have ZERO problems with people saying "I don't like amps, I love any key brass, I hate synths, etc." I love debating the merits of all of those things. But when so many people make gross generalizations and spout their own personal opinions as fact/truth, and say nonsense like "synths aren't real drum corps," then the discussion, in my opinion, degrades the legitimacy of this forum. What is increasingly growing tiresome is that "the logic at work in my opinion" is when ANYONE who states their opinion on what they like in a drum corps (which is awesome IMO) then speaks as though they're opinion is fact, the only "real" drum corps, etc. Any opinion is legitimate. Not every opinion in legitimate in the world of running DCI and/or member corps. If a corps director publicly talks about what they feel are definitive drum corps traits that I disagree with, I have no problem arguing those merits. If the majority of the DCI BoD votes for a rule change, I don't so much of a problem giving them the benefit of the doubt that they know a bit more about managing a drum and bugle corps' day-to-day operations than, say, a guy that marched 2 years in a drum corps in the 90's. Dissension of drum corps fans from popular drum corps traits? Awesome. Expressing differing opinions on DCP? Great. Insinuating your opinion of the activity is fact, the only "real" iteration of the activity, and you know more as a fan than the people who run the day to day operations of the activity? Nonsense. Implying that DCP is a legitimate forum that DCI Board of Directors should base business decisions on? Nonsense. That's all I'm saying. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
perc2100 Posted January 25, 2010 Share Posted January 25, 2010 The best ideas for change rarely spring from the top of organizations. They almost always spring from below. What's also interesting, is that there are currently no legion of DCI directors looking to spring change. Did you read any proposed rule changes going against the current trends (no synths, no amps, etc)? No. As far as we all no, not one director of any DCI corps is looking for any radical changes. Don't try to imply that there is some kind of change springing, when all we're talking about here are some vocal posters on a message forum. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jeff Ream Posted January 25, 2010 Share Posted January 25, 2010 What's also interesting, is that there are currently no legion of DCI directors looking to spring change. Did you read any proposed rule changes going against the current trends (no synths, no amps, etc)? No. As far as we all no, not one director of any DCI corps is looking for any radical changes. Don't try to imply that there is some kind of change springing, when all we're talking about here are some vocal posters on a message forum. there is NO one director radically looking to change things? um, maybe not in this year's proposals. But he may have waited before proposing some old ideas again Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
IntheMood Posted January 25, 2010 Share Posted January 25, 2010 Not at all Here's what I posted (which you quoted but possibly missed): What is increasingly growing tiresome is that "the logic at work in my opinion" is when ANYONE who states their opinion on what they like in a drum corps (which is awesome IMO) then speaks as though they're opinion is fact, the only "real" drum corps, etc. Any opinion is legitimate. Not every opinion in legitimate in the world of running DCI and/or member corps. If a corps director publicly talks about what they feel are definitive drum corps traits that I disagree with, I have no problem arguing those merits. If the majority of the DCI BoD votes for a rule change, I don't so much of a problem giving them the benefit of the doubt that they know a bit more about managing a drum and bugle corps' day-to-day operations than, say, a guy that marched 2 years in a drum corps in the 90's. Dissension of drum corps fans from popular drum corps traits? Awesome. Expressing differing opinions on DCP? Great. Insinuating your opinion of the activity is fact, the only "real" iteration of the activity, and you know more as a fan than the people who run the day to day operations of the activity? Nonsense. Implying that DCP is a legitimate forum that DCI Board of Directors should base business decisions on? Nonsense. That's all I'm saying. I know these are just your opinions. And I respect that. I can assure you that there are company's that would kill for the free feedback that DCP is providing to the fan base. To me DCP is a great tool for DCI. The VOC (Voice of the Customer) is very much on display here. It would be wise that they do listen to some degree. I took the survey, I can tell that they could of saved the money they spent in conducting this survey by just listening to the VOC here on DCP. If DCP is no longer important why has DCA embraced the power of DCP? Why do young cats keep asking for sponsorship from the DCP membership? I have seen this happen over and over again here on DCP: If something happens on the road and help is asked for from the membership of DCP, that help has always came. It is my opinion that the people running the day to day operations of this activity, think that they know more what the fans (customers) want then the fans do themselves. Big mistake. If they knew more then the fans then why has there been a decline in fans attending Shows? And one could argue that there has not been a decline in fans attending Shows because the numbers has not been released. I just seen the new Domino's Pizza ad on TV. They get it. The VOC is indeed very important to them. They are catering to the customer who buys their product. And I can assure you that most of the people who buy their pizza have never ran the day to day operation of a Domino's pizza store. Dean Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jeff Ream Posted January 25, 2010 Share Posted January 25, 2010 I know these are just your opinions. And I respect that. I can assure you that there are company's that would kill for the free feedback that DCP is providing to the fan base. To me DCP is a great tool for DCI. The VOC (Voice of the Customer) is very much on display here. It would be wise that they do listen to some degree. I took the survey, I can tell that they could of saved the money they spent in conducting this survey by just listening to the VOC here on DCP. If DCP is no longer important why has DCA embraced the power of DCP? Why do young cats keep asking for sponsorship from the DCP membership? I have seen this happen over and over again here on DCP: If something happens on the road and help is asked for from the membership of DCP, that help has always came.It is my opinion that the people running the day to day operations of this activity, think that they know more what the fans (customers) want then the fans do themselves. Big mistake. If they knew more then the fans then why has there been a decline in fans attending Shows? And one could argue that there has not been a decline in fans attending Shows because the numbers has not been released. I just seen the new Domino's Pizza ad on TV. They get it. The VOC is indeed very important to them. They are catering to the customer who buys their product. And I can assure you that most of the people who buy their pizza have never ran the day to day operation of a Domino's pizza store. Dean many good points Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
perc2100 Posted January 25, 2010 Share Posted January 25, 2010 I know these are just your opinions. And I respect that. I can assure you that there are company's that would kill for the free feedback that DCP is providing to the fan base. To me DCP is a great tool for DCI. The VOC (Voice of the Customer) is very much on display here. It would be wise that they do listen to some degree. I took the survey, I can tell that they could of saved the money they spent in conducting this survey by just listening to the VOC here on DCP. If DCP is no longer important why has DCA embraced the power of DCP? Why do young cats keep asking for sponsorship from the DCP membership? I have seen this happen over and over again here on DCP: If something happens on the road and help is asked for from the membership of DCP, that help has always came.It is my opinion that the people running the day to day operations of this activity, think that they know more what the fans (customers) want then the fans do themselves. Big mistake. If they knew more then the fans then why has there been a decline in fans attending Shows? And one could argue that there has not been a decline in fans attending Shows because the numbers has not been released. I just seen the new Domino's Pizza ad on TV. They get it. The VOC is indeed very important to them. They are catering to the customer who buys their product. And I can assure you that most of the people who buy their pizza have never ran the day to day operation of a Domino's pizza store. Dean I think that DCP is great for many of the things you list above, and is important for some aspects of our activity. With a small niche activity we have, there truly are not many places that DCI can look to for customer input. But there is little on here, IMO, to base any kind of substantial market research on. There is no clear data that: * DCP is filled with the key demographics that DCI is hoping to attract * people on here truly are customers of DCI. They say they are, but there's no evidence to support it with just a cursory reading of threads I would suspect market researchers would not consider DCP a very credible opportunity to gain any real concrete opinion on the direction of DCI (just as the Chicago Cubs do not consider their fan forums any where near as credible as a true market research survey). What DCI should do (and does, I think) is contact people who purchase their products and poll the people who are their customers. That at least, would be a start. Also, for what it's worth, a lot of the criticism on here comes from people who are well past their DCI marching age (to put it lightly; and I'm one of those people). It seems clear from advertisements and graphic designs of websites that DCI is looking to target fans mostly of marching age (high school and college students). If that's the case, then trying to gain market research by reading posts by people far past their demographic doesn't seem wise. Yes, I will admit that there are benefits of DCP as a community. We are ALL passionate about the activity, those of us that marched know that we help out our brothers and sisters; that passion and compassion comes through with donations, sponsors, and other ways of helping those in need. But I think that's where the legitimacy of DCP ends (outside of sharing opinions, debating scores, etc which is legitimately fun but not necessarily productive) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
garfield Posted January 26, 2010 Share Posted January 26, 2010 I would suspect market researchers would not consider DCP a very credible opportunity to gain any real concrete opinion on the direction of DCI (just as the Chicago Cubs do not consider their fan forums any where near as credible as a true market research survey). What DCI should do (and does, I think) is contact people who purchase their products and poll the people who are their customers. That at least, would be a start. It may be unusual for an org. to pay attention to its fans, but not un heard-of. My son is a fan of the Columbus Crew and their central office has organized a fan representative group that meet wth the central office on a regular basis. The hard-corps Crew crazies follow en-masse to watch the team at away games, the "needs" of the fans are taken into account, and improvements in the fan experience start with this group of representative fans. My son among them. I have no idea if it makes any difference, but I can tell you it publicly makes the fan base VERY supportive of the team and its leaders both on and off the field. I'm jealous that they have that and DCI doesn't. And I think it couldn't hurt to have input other than at-large board members. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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