KILTIES play on all Gs.

[CorpsPhan]

Its a great practice facility and a testament to the great support for the corps in SE Wisconsin. Now if we could only convince the school to get rid of those high school hashes and put in ours!

I'm willing to compromise and have dual-hashes, ours being in school bus yellow or whatever the color that Joe F gets us for when we do the Raiders games.

[Chris W]

Just saw the tread on this and am late to the game but the Northernaires are all G playing a mix of Kanstul, Dynasty, and Kings. All are 3V except the contras are King K90s 2V. The sound is great on all of the horns and are more powerful than Bb.

We did an indoor show on a stage last year with a small hornline of 8 and recorded on a decibel meter 114 dbs at the back of the room which was about 150 feet away. No PA system used!

I also attended an Americanos Alumni practice using one of their Yamaha Bb tubas and we had about 14 horns (including 4 tubas) playing with 3 snares & 2 bass drums in the corps hall and I could not hear the horn line. There are some very good horn players and the drum line was not trying to play loud.

And yes the weight of the "tuba" was so light that when I first hoisted it up on a "Horns Up" command, I almost tossed it over my shoulder. Nowhere near the weight or playing ability of either my King K90 or DEG Super Mag!

[thirdcoast]

GO KILTIES! Hows it going?

[bill]

Good.

GO KILTIES! Hows it going?

[Galen]

GO KILTIES! Hows it going?

Pretty good! We had a good dress rehearsal that capped off with the first full-uniform runthrough of the season.

[highcountrymike]

High Country is and will be a "G" corps.

We love the in your face sound and power of the G bugle. Besides we would have to have 40 horns playing b flats to match the sound of our 20 plus horn line.

[Mello Dude]

Quoted from over a decade ago:

I will weigh in by responding to a post by Don Taylor. He writes:

>I really can't see the big deal behind this. It has been my experience that it

>doesn't matter what key, or brand, or how many valves the horn has when it

>comes to playing in tune, or blending the sounds together, or even playing

>"loud". The difference is in how well the performers are trained. The quality

>of the instrument can either help or hinder the process of putting together a

>fine brass section.

I have to strongly disagree. Because of the fundamental length and proportional

bell size, the G instruments are much more powerful and robust than their Bb

counterperts; be they $1200 Bachs, $2000 Schilkes, or $XXX(indeed financially

obscene) Monettes. The C trumpet has a narrower, more penetrating sound than a

Bb, and the D, Eb, and G, A, and Bb piccolos are progressively more so. The G

bugle (alto trumpet, actually)--a minor third lower than the Bb--is markedly

different, especially out doors, where there is no acoustic reinforcement. The

G instruments are the ONLY REMAINING element unique to drum corps. You can tell

it's a corps BY THE SOUND. It's an easy thing to test. I've done it, and those

posting can do so too.

>My reason for wanting it to pass is to have access to better quality

>instruments.

A big part of competitive drum corps is the fact that all the units, from the

Blue Devils, to the Cheeseville Curds, compete with the same equipment, thus

(theoretically) making the activity about the achievement of the members,

rather than the groups' financial resources. Opening the activity to multi-key

brass will quickly reduce the shrinking market for G instruments (as well as

their very existence), and increase the gulf between the haves and have-nots;

say, the Curds playing Bundys and BD on Calicchios or (almost certainly) top

line Yamahas.

>At this point in time, the only instrument that has a real

>advantage for our activity is the trumpet, as most Bb marching brass does not

>play any better (and sometimes worse) than bugles. Consider this, however,I'll

>bet that if instrument manufacturers would be able to develop instruments for

>drumcorps that they could also sell to marching bands, they would all compete

>to produce a great product, and use drumcorps staff people for input on how to

>improve those products, and to get the top hornlines to endorse their product

>(maybe even sponsorships, imagine that), perhaps we would see a DRASTIC

>improvement in what is available not only for drumcorps, but bands as well

.I suspect corporate money is behind the whole multi-key "push". Perhaps a

company like Yamaha, who is aggressively moving into the American band market.

What if your band could play the very same instruments as the CADETS!!. The

BLUE DEVILS!! That would guarantee tremendous sales (as it has in percussion).

I would wager it's about somebody making money, not the growth or accessability

of the activity.

>Now as for trumpets, a well made soprano doesn't even come close to thequality

>of even a medium grade trumpet.

And outdoors, a professional trumpet sounds like a kazoo next to a G "bugle".

It's "apples and oranges"; the G bugle is more suited to delivering the

acoustic "punch" and thrilling sound that corps fans (and bandos) love. In the

concert hall (where Star of Indiana has retreated) the G bugle sounds grotesque

and plays like a pig. Your argument is not unlike comparing the merits of a

sewing machine and a roto-tiller; one is finer and of higher quality, but you

wouldn't use it to do the job of the other. After all, it's a somewhat crude

activity; hot sun, rain, sweaty kids, dirt, trucks, busses, crazy visuals,

making loud sounds in football stadiums. Not the stuff of tuxedos and delicate

shading and nuance. ITS DRUM CORPS.

>Why? marketability. A company that makes what I

>consider to be the best soprano also makes custom built trumpets. Why do their

>sopranos cost $450, and their trumpets cost $1500? Think about it a minute.

>Yes, they could easily make a soprano of the same quality, but how many people

>would be willing to pay $1500 for a soprano bugle, when you can buy a Bach

>Stradivarius trumpet for $900? As an aside, one group that I know of did have

>custom built 3 valve G bugles made for them, that are of superior quality, and

>play as well as a custom built trumpet, but those were $2000. (The corps, BTW,

>was FutureCorps)

See above.

>Proposal 3: To allow the use of amplification. Submitted by George Hopkins.

Should this pass---Emphatic no! George thinks pits can't be heard. They can quite well. Pits have been known to overplay the brass at times---will that be solved if their amplified? Only with a good soundman.

What about when it rains and the amps have to be shut off and covered?

Will this pass: No, but it will be close.

>I hope this one passes as well. The issue here is not audibility, but the

>quality of what you hear. I'm sure a lot of drumcorps audiences are not aware

>of the wonderful colors of sound, and expressive qualities of a marimba or

>vibraphone, simply because you have to beat the starch out of it for it to be

>heard outdoors more than 10 yards away. These are great sounds that aren't

>available because of how hard they have to be played, and the types of mallets

>used on them to get them to project. The bigger issue is that the playing

>techniques used to get the amount of sound out of these instruments arenothing

>short of child abuse.

Child abuse. Right.

Manufacturers build keyboards specifically for outdoor use (where sun and rain

are the primary destroyers). They are designed to take the "abuse" the activity

requires. This is what most corps use. The subtle tonal colors are for indoors.

This is also part of the arrangers' challenge, how to get an effect to the

audience. Some won't just work.

>Amplification would allow instructors to teach their

>students proper playing techniques, and allow audiences to hear thesewonderful

>made waterproof (or covered), and powered by batteries.

If it's sound doesn't carry outside, don't carry it outside (kinda catchy,

huh?). This is why we don't have groups of marching harps, lutes and song

flutes. And talk about haves and have-nots(!); amps, engineers, roadies,

transportation and maintanance. $$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$!!!!!!!!!!!!!! Sounds like a

perfect way to take something relatively simple and make it complicated and

expensive. Is this being recommended for the same activity whose rising costs

set people to wailing and gnashing teeth?

>IMO, even if these pass, it will still be drumcorps. The activity is moreabout

>the experience, and the life lessons learned, and the intense quest for

>perfection than it is about what kind of horn you play.

IMO, it won't be drum corps. It will be something else. And it may still offer

the same experiences, but only for the rich.

Change if you want, but learn the real reasons, and what the consequences could

be.

Peter Bond

[mchromik]

I also attended an Americanos Alumni practice using one of their Yamaha Bb tubas and we had about 14 horns (including 4 tubas) playing with 3 snares & 2 bass drums in the corps hall and I could not hear the horn line. There are some very good horn players and the drum line was not trying to play loud.

And yes the weight of the "tuba" was so light that when I first hoisted it up on a "Horns Up" command, I almost tossed it over my shoulder. Nowhere near the weight or playing ability of either my King K90 or DEG Super Mag!

Interesting, but sounds like there may be an approach issue here, or a memory issue. Star United uses the said Yami Tubas (two of them) and all Yami low and mid brass. And our 18 brass have never had an issue being heard. In fact, our only volume issue was that in a particular tight staging we were making our dm physically sick if she stood in the line of fire so to speak.

It is all apples and oranges. You can open a Bb line up, it just takes a bit more work. Just as you can make a G line play with a warm dark quality and 'decent' intonation, it just takes more effort.

[BrassTeacher]

Quoted from over a decade ago:

I will weigh in by responding to a post by Don Taylor. He writes:

>I really can't see the big deal behind this. It has been my experience that it

>doesn't matter what key, or brand, or how many valves the horn has when it

>comes to playing in tune, or blending the sounds together, or even playing

>"loud". The difference is in how well the performers are trained. The quality

>of the instrument can either help or hinder the process of putting together a

>fine brass section.

I have to strongly disagree. Because of the fundamental length and proportional

bell size, the G instruments are much more powerful and robust than their Bb

counterperts; be they $1200 Bachs, $2000 Schilkes, or $XXX(indeed financially

obscene) Monettes. The C trumpet has a narrower, more penetrating sound than a

::Large amount of snippage::

atively simple and make it complicated and

expensive. Is this being recommended for the same activity whose rising costs

set people to wailing and gnashing teeth?

>IMO, even if these pass, it will still be drumcorps. The activity is moreabout

>the experience, and the life lessons learned, and the intense quest for

>perfection than it is about what kind of horn you play.

IMO, it won't be drum corps. It will be something else. And it may still offer

the same experiences, but only for the rich.

Change if you want, but learn the real reasons, and what the consequences could

be.

Peter Bond

Pete,

Why drag this dead horse up and pick up a big stick now? I mean, really...