KILTIES play on all Gs.

[ContraRich77]

Dan Scerpella for President!

(of WHAT, I cannot say...)

[camel lips]

Maybe someone can verify this for me but wasnt Phantom carrying a 70 something person hornline in 08? The G lines of the 80s and 90s rarely were too far over 60.

That's because 8 Sops in the 80's could Chuck Norris roundhouse kick 24 trumpets in the ###.

[audiodb]

Pardon my lack of this knowledge, but who was the last corps to win a DCA or DCI championship with G horns? Not the brass caption...but the championship.

I believe that would be Sunrisers, 2007 DCA class A champion. Spartans also won DCI division II in 2007.

[Scerpella]

Dan Scerpella for President!

(of WHAT, I cannot say...)

Of my own little country Backyardia.

[Galen]

Sorry, but no recent DCI corps are/will be as loud as old 80's and 90's lines.

I dunno- Crown's hornline has been a BEAST the last two seasons, and I can recall suffering temporary hearing loss hearing Phantom at an encore in '06.

[zachariaswmb]

Maybe someone can verify this for me but wasnt Phantom carrying a 70 something person hornline in 08? The G lines of the 80s and 90s rarely were too far over 60.

We had 72 horns. Breakdown was 24-12-24-12. Thanks for the positive comments!

And now to post something that is on-topic! A lot of times Bb horns can get a bad rap because people are using models that are made to be played inside, and that probably have an medium-large bore. That's fine if you're a high schooler/"community band" player who hasn't really tapped into the notion of putting serious air through the horn, but once you're playing outdoors, that horn is not going to do what you want. It will "edge out," and wind up sounding crass and brittle the minute you try to play with a big sound that can fill a stadium. That's why, if you're going to march Bb, it's best to march a line that is made for playing outdoors (i.e. King Marching Brass). These may be keyed in Bb, and still be "trumpets" rather than "sopranos," but they are made to be played like a bugle.

I'll speak for the King trumpets right now, since that's what I've used the most. The bell is huge, and the bore size is huge. One can throw air through it all day, and back pressure will never be an issue. I remember going back to my Bach Strad ML after the season was over, and feeling like I was going to break it. These horns are chop killers, and not for the faint of heart, but when used properly, they have a far superior sound outdoors than standard Bb trumpets. So, before you totally pu-pu anything in the key of Bb, check out some of the great advancements that have been made by these companies selling instruments specifically for outdoor playing. I have a feeling it's only going to get better from here!

[Donny Drum Corps]

I guess I am still wondering why you are still wondering why? I thought this was a very positive post. Must be a MM.

OK I will bite...this is at least the 1000th thread about G versus Bb...

DA

[Shadow_7]

No, I'm pretty sure Kanstul makes their Bugles a little cheaper than their Bb Brass. Brand new they are pretty close in price. The advantage of Bbs is in the contract a big Corps can get.

It depends on how you do the math. G's are cheaper if you plan on buying a new set of horns and plan on running them into the ground. BUT... If you plan on buying new, using a couple of seasons, then selling them. Bb's have a larger resale market and retain their value better. They may not be the best horns for outdoor use, but not all gigs are outdoors. And while you use them outdoors, someone else might not.

As far as the Kilties. I marched in 2006 and at that time they still had a number of Bb Yamahas (with G conversion kit / extra tubes). But they switched to all G contras(native key) the following year. Once 4 valves were made legal. i.e. Deg Super Mags.

I do tend to agree with the sentiment of IF Bb, then opting for local community band versus drumcorps. With all the strife / expense associated with travel plus performing outdoors, why bother if you get more peformances per year locally at a much cheaper personal cost. I love the sound of G horns. I went to the Vigilantes open house and played on a G mello in an ensemble for a few hours, for the first time in about five years(for mellophone). I really miss that sound and they have a nice hornline. But $1K in corps direct expenses and $1K in corps indirect expenses coming from so far away, I just can't do this year. One other in state option, not to imply local, at least in terms of competition(if, if, if ....), and in such tough times where corps are changing plans mid-season, is it worth the risk? I'd like to, but $400-$1,400 in related expenses goes a long way towards OTHER goals. I love my drumcorps, but even I have my limits. Of course in the traditional drumcorps spirit, testing those limits is the norm.

[camel lips]

I dunno- Crown's hornline has been a BEAST the last two seasons, and I can recall suffering temporary hearing loss hearing Phantom at an encore in '06.

With the volume knob turned up to 11?

I can agree with that.

08 Phantom was loud but much had to do with the arrangements and the staging.

No way head to head,all things equal (without electronics) is a Bb line going to be louder than a G line. PERIOD! END OF STORY!

[HornsUp]

We had 72 horns. Breakdown was 24-12-24-12. Thanks for the positive comments!

And now to post something that is on-topic! A lot of times Bb horns can get a bad rap because people are using models that are made to be played inside, and that probably have an medium-large bore. That's fine if you're a high schooler/"community band" player who hasn't really tapped into the notion of putting serious air through the horn, but once you're playing outdoors, that horn is not going to do what you want. It will "edge out," and wind up sounding crass and brittle the minute you try to play with a big sound that can fill a stadium. That's why, if you're going to march Bb, it's best to march a line that is made for playing outdoors (i.e. King Marching Brass). These may be keyed in Bb, and still be "trumpets" rather than "sopranos," but they are made to be played like a bugle.

I'll speak for the King trumpets right now, since that's what I've used the most. The bell is huge, and the bore size is huge. One can throw air through it all day, and back pressure will never be an issue. I remember going back to my Bach Strad ML after the season was over, and feeling like I was going to break it. These horns are chop killers, and not for the faint of heart, but when used properly, they have a far superior sound outdoors than standard Bb trumpets. So, before you totally pu-pu anything in the key of Bb, check out some of the great advancements that have been made by these companies selling instruments specifically for outdoor playing. I have a feeling it's only going to get better from here!

Bb Trumpet bore sizes;

Bach Stradivarius .462 L, .459 ML, .453 M

Jupiter 5000 .460

King 1117 .462

Kanstul 103 .470

Yamaha Xeno .459

G Soprano bore sizes:

American Command Premier Ed..460

American Command Power Bore .468

DEG 2 valve .468

DEG (Allied) 3 valve .468

DEG (Weril) 3 valve .460

Joe Lintz (Brand X) .470

Kanstul 2 valve USMC model .468

Kanstul 3 valve .468 cluster, .470 TAN slide

King K-20 .468

Olds Ultratone PR .466

Edited April 16, 2010 by HornsUp