New tour concept for 2011 proposed

[cadetzoid]

I have got to stop worrying about this and get on with my day. So, I have made a decision that helps me as of right now. A huge fan of Cadets shows for the past 2.5 decades, and a yearly financial contributor, my check will not be written this May. My love of Cadet performances (as well as other corps) is out ranked by my love of the activity and desire to see it grow, not diminish. I will still help kids march, but not write any more checks to corps.

George, have you forgotten your roots and early drum corps experiences? Its about the performances and the kids, lots of kids, not just those lucky enough to wear maroon and gold.

[audiodb]

funny how the article seems to mention the 4 of the g7 recused themselves from the bod but doesnt mention that they first voted in favor of the proposal. i think that's a major detail and wouldve been in the article.

Neither article says anything about anyone "recusing" themselves from a vote. Cite your source.

[corpsband]

NOTHING has been passed! A proposal was made. There was discussion about it. It was decided that a lot of the details about the impacts of those proposals were missing. More study was requested.

If and when those proposals actually appear somewhere that we can *all* read them, it would be great to discuss them. But for now all we have are two very sketchy articles.

There has been no vote on these proposals. And there's no evidence to suggest that if there *were* a vote that any of these proposals will pass.

The G7 article clearly is highlighting the positive aspects of the proposal.

The DCW article (to me at least) seems like an editorial against the proposal.

But AFAIK no one has actually seen a single word of the actual proposals. Maybe they don't exist beyond a powerpoint presentation? In any case nearly all rational thought has been sucked out the window here! Posters are making assumptions they have no basis for making and then leaping to unsupported conclusions. In my view the discourse here is as bad as it ever was on RAMD. People have lost their minds.

[see me]

Can we just imagine if these G(greed)7 do this, what will happen to the Open Class corps? I'm all for added events, but at who's expense? the oc corps that struggle already to survive? FREAKIN unbelievable.......

[ShortAndFast]

I read most of the comments in this thread. A few of my own:

1) I'm surprised it took this long. The reality is that the top groups already attract the most talent, draw the most fans, sell the most souvenirs, and are the most attractive to outside sponsors. In a rough economy, they are going to make sure (indeed, their management has the responsibility to make sure) that they are being correspondingly compensated. Drum corps isn't a completely zero-sum game, but nor is it a rapidly growing one, so this necessarily takes something from other corps.

2) If you think that's unfair, consider the converse: what would be the attendance at a show like San Antonio or Atlanta if ONLY the non-G7 corps participated? 25%? 35%? 50%? If you guessed anything under 68% (7/22), then why do you think it's "fair" to require the G7 to subsidize corps that cannot draw their own audience?

3) The G7 don't want to kill DCI. If they wanted to leave to form their own circuit, they could do so. They've chosen to try to do this within the DCI structure. The most likely reason is that they hope that other corps will someday succeed at a similar level. 5 years ago, Crown would not have drawn enough audience to earn a place in the G7. Today, they obviously do. It's pretty easy to imagine a resurgent Madison in a few years drawing enough fans to justify growing G7 into G8.

4) It's entirely possible that this hurts the G7 competitively while rewarding them financially. If, say, Blue Stars are working all day, every day on their field show while the Bluecoats have to devote time to other music, encores, "anything goes" performances, etc., then who's going to claim that 6th place spot at Finals?

5) If I were forced to choose between a Saturday regional with the Top 22, and a Sunday G7 show, I'd pick the Sunday show. It's not that there's nothing to like in the non-G7 shows - I sit through all of quarters and semis each year, and there always are a couple of gems - but I'd value encores, concert pieces, etc. from the top groups more.

Edited May 20, 2010 by ShortAndFast

[JimF-LowBari]

Jim, you're still thinking in terms of a zero-sum game. This is the problem of short-sighted thinking inherent with any paradigm that relies on revenue sharing. If you keep the pie as it is, that is to say total revenue stays stagnant, then yes of course any increase to the revenue of one corps will adversely effect the revenue of another. But what if we grow the pie? What if the poor and the rich both get richer? Why is this not possible?

Let's put it another way. We both want the activity to grow, I'm sure of it. One way to encourage that is to make sure there's more money coming into the activity to allow more people to participate. How do we get that money? The revenue-sharing "piece of the pie" model assumes that the only way for small corps and new corps to receive funding is to take from the larger, established corps. In the short term that might provide some benefit, but it's no way to grow the activity. No one on DCP seems to like the idea of the large corps consuming the smaller; I've no idea why so many of those same people seem to be happy to let the small corps consume the larger.

I reject the revenue-sharing model in the long term. Instead, we should be pushing our activity to sustainability for all corps. I've heard some like audiodb insist that regional corps were once upon a time able to be self-sustaining, with fundraisers and the like, even in the face of little fan support or revenue. Why not get back to that? If a corps is able to sustain itself and keep its own head above water, then there is no pressure from external forces to tour nationally, to add equipment that they can't afford, or to produce a show designed just to play the game. If a corps is self-sustaining, then it becomes able to act in its own self-interest, just as the G7 corps are today.

A great way to help all corps become self-sustaining is to grow the brand. Make drum corps a household concept, like basketball or baseball. The further wedding of drum corps to the scholastic world makes sense in this light. Everyone knows what a marching band is, even if their impression is the stereotypical one. Let's make everyone in the nation aware of drum corps. Let's at least try to convince everyone in the nation that our activity is pretty #### cool. And the way you do that is by putting your best foot forward. You grow the brand with the G7 corps. You show them the Blue Devils, or the Cadets or the Cavaliers. The NBA doesn't market itself with Michael Redd and the Milwaukee Bucks. The NBA markets Kobe Bryant and the LA Lakers. The NFL markets Peyton Manning's Colts and Tom Brady's Patriots, who play in prime time during sweeps week yet again this year.

The G7 corps are the draw. You know this and I know this. I don't know the full details of the proposal any more than I think you do, but it makes perfect sense to me to use the G7 corps as draws to grow interest in the activity. Let's help both the rich and the poor get richer.

I came from the pre-appearance fee days when corps were paid according to the position a corps came in after the show. DCA set the minimun payout amounts for the shows they sponsored and didn't matter if your corps was a DCA member or not. The better corps got more money which made sense. It wasn't revenue sharing, it was giving all the corps a chance to receive a check.

Actually I haven't seen anyone saying that DCI should have revenue sharing where lesser corps just receive a check. And I sure haven't seen any indication that the smaller corps are consuming the larger. What I see in the proposal is a way for the G7 groups to get even more money by having shows by themselves. And that gives the non-G7 corps absolutely no way to receive the money they need.

[see me]

I have got to stop worrying about this and get on with my day. So, I have made a decision that helps me as of right now. A huge fan of Cadets shows for the past 2.5 decades, and a yearly financial contributor, my check will not be written this May. My love of Cadet performances (as well as other corps) is out ranked by my love of the activity and desire to see it grow, not diminish. I will still help kids march, but not write any more checks to corps.

George, have you forgotten your roots and early drum corps experiences? Its about the performances and the kids, lots of kids, not just those lucky enough to wear maroon and gold.

[Phantom&Phitch]

Neither article says anything about anyone "recusing" themselves from a vote. Cite your source.

learn to read - i said from the BoD

[dbc03]

NOTHING has been passed! A proposal was made. There was discussion about it. It was decided that a lot of the details about the impacts of those proposals were missing. More study was requested.

If and when those proposals actually appear somewhere that we can *all* read them, it would be great to discuss them. But for now all we have are two very sketchy articles.

There has been no vote on these proposals. And there's no evidence to suggest that if there *were* a vote that any of these proposals will pass.

The G7 article clearly is highlighting the positive aspects of the proposal.

The DCW article (to me at least) seems like an editorial against the proposal.

But AFAIK no one has actually seen a single word of the actual proposals. Maybe they don't exist beyond a powerpoint presentation? In any case nearly all rational thought has been sucked out the window here! Posters are making assumptions they have no basis for making and then leaping to unsupported conclusions. In my view the discourse here is as bad as it ever was on RAMD. People have lost their minds.

People should read this post

[JimF-LowBari]

People should read this post

Yeah.... we should all wait until something has been done before we open our mouths.

Guess you never voiced your opinion to your Congressman while something was being discussed.