New tour concept for 2011 proposed

[Matt_S]

That's well said, and I think people screaming that all the corps are equal and to suggest that the G7 somehow don't contribute more to the overall success of DCI than lower-placing corps are living in some sort of Pollyanna Fantasyland. My impression of this proposal is it is less "power grab" than it is these top groups taking a cold, hard look at their own survival. I'm sure the changes in the California bingo laws have prompted the Blue Devils and others to investigate any new avenue/changes necessary to somehow make up for that lost source of revenue, and I can certainly understand the position that some may feel their massive contribution to the overall activity is presently undervalued.

What impresses me about the proposal is the G7 is simply not bolting and leaving everyone else in the weeds, they seem to be offering to take on an additional burden of producing extra shows while still playing the game with the lesser corps, so that they don't pull their needed star power out of the existing circuit. They don't have to do that. If this block decided to exit en masse, they would still be able to draw good crowds/potential members. They are simply that good and (for the most part) have proven to be the best each season for 30 years.

I like the idea of a show option (from a purely consumer entertainment perspective) that only has the standout corps. As shows are currently structured, they start out with a whimper and end with a bang. That's terrible from a marketing standpoint. If an audience member's first impression is a 12-member hornline (and this comes from someone who used to run a corps that size) or a weak 50-member one, it creates a deficit of reaction that then has to be rectified as the evening goes on. The G7 appearing at the end usually makes up for the flat start, but it is sort of asking the audience to "just bear with us" until we get to the truly spectacular stuff. That's a tough sell, and anyone who has brought a new person to a show has had to deal with it, as you explain, "no, really these ones right after the intermission will blow you away!" Rough.

I think they stand a better chance of reaching a broader audience and generating more revenue by having a show that is ALL bang, from beginning to end, basically like all other competing forms of entertainment. If you pay $75 to see a Broadway show, the evening doesn't start with a performance by the Peoria Community Theater.

It will be interesting to see how this evolves/plays out, and no doubt there will be a lot of hysteria about it, but I can tell this is not something they just pulled out of a hat. The current proposal is obviously something that these management teams and boards have been working on for months, and since all these people involved are the ones who have consistently run the most successful/stable organizations, I'll give them the benefit of the doubt that there will be merit in the idea (at least for the corps involved). Will there be a downside as well? Most likely, but its intriguing and a bold attempt at injecting some badly-needed new life into a stagnant system.

Quoted for truth. This is an excellent post.

[JimF-LowBari]

I don't see your final line to be true at all. If anything, it's more insulting to the non-G7 corps than the proposal itself. You're telling me that the only way for non-G7 corps to survive is by attending shows where the spectators are there to see someone else? That's subsidization if I ever heard of it.

Well that's the big difference Matt. You sound like spectators only want to hear the top corps. There are a lot of us that enjoy seeing more than the top (pick a number). Personally I enjoy seeing all sizes and talent levels of corps. Yes, DCA Prelims stands do get fuller as the better corps come out but the first (aka lowest) corps on the field do have a group in the stands watching and applauding.

Interesting that the "adult" circuit seems to be doing better promoting/showing the non-top corps than the "It's all about the kids" one.

[bawker]

Lots of people in this thread are already under the assumption that this has passed and is happening.

No, I don't think so . . .but when you temper your judgment with the fact that this will come up again in July . . .in the middle of the freaking season . . .and the proclivity for some of these directors to build consensus for like-minded groups (no G7 unit will say no to more money, although Don Warren and Adolph DeGrauwe seem to at least straddle the fence on this for now) . . .there's a chance it just might pass.

After a while, when you see stuff push through and it's a "pass now, think about it later" mindset . . .for example, it took almost SEVEN years to get someone in the box doing sound, when that sort of stuff should have been discussed and thought through beforehand . . .you start to become wary of something that is "just a proposal".

This may be nothing, and come July, Weinstein and Komnick and others will forge a coalition that shoots this down.

However, previous history just doesn't jive with that, IMO.

[Jeff Ream]

I read this whole #### topic.

Anyone familiar with my posting history knows I usually come down in opposition to those like Jeff, audiodb, BRASSO, etc...but not this time. I believe this will change the activity more than anything since the inception of DCI, and not for the better.

A few points to consider:

1. There are multiple perspectives here:

- Fans

- G7 Corps

- Non-G7 Corps

- The entire jr corps activity

For the fans, this is great, Bruckner8 has espoused on how awesome it would be to see the top corps duke it out in a new and entertaining competition structure. This is a VERY naive and selfish viewpoint though.

For the G7 corps, this is great. More money, more performance opportunities, more brand equity, more glory.

For the non-G7 corps, it's the opposite of all that.

For the activity, it's disasterous. The viewpoint of Bruckner8 is SO shortsighted. As many have said, this leaves the non-G7 corps with crumbs.

2. Anyone who thinks that Hopkins et al are doing this for any reason than to make their organizations more profitable and sustainable is beyond naive. Any good director acts in his or her organization's best interest. Hopkins pretty clearly believes that creating this weekend spectacle is the first step on the pathway to increasing the audience for his group and groups like his. That's the same reasons he's wanted more design freedom: to create something that will attract more non-marching arts affiliated fans to the activity. It's a fine vision and I bet whatever it ends up being will be tremendously entertaining (think Blast!), but the problem is they're planning on effectively bankrupting DCI (stealing their fanbase and member base) to launch this venture.

3. This is the big one that no one is talking about. From the DCW article: "The presentation included ideas to minimize the DCI infrastructure in an effort to reduce overhead and increase corps payouts -- focusing on adjudication initiatives, among other things -- with other DCI administrative functions being distributed to the G7 corps." Think CrownTickets instead of TicketMaster for ALL DCI shows. Do you know how much effing money the G7 corps stand to make on this by performing this hostile takeover of DCI?

Quite frankly, this all scares the #### out of me. These groups should just pack up and leave if they want to do their own thing, but without taking all they can from DCI. DCI would be well-suited to kick them to the curb and move forward with BAC, Blue Stars, BK, Glassmen, Madison, Crossmen, hopefully Cavies and the rest of the remaining corps as the face of DCI. It won't be easy, and I'm sure in time more organizations will get greedy and lose sight of the well-being of the ENTIRE activity (as these 6.5 have), but I believe that's DCI's best chance for survival.

he like me, he really like me

[michsta8]

Congratulations you just cleared up $10,000 in a $1,000,000+ budget. This will surely save drum corps!

Oops now you have gotten rid of $30,000+ worth of income in the form of dues.

Less the amount of people who don't go to the shows, buy souvies, countdown..... anymore because of this.

How about the costs of extra trucks/fuel/food to move this equipment and the additional staff and members. Think before you write.

[corpsband]

LOL, good point but DCI is run slightly differently.

Seriously, I do think having DCW and other placs "leak" this info was planned. Think this is a way for some people at DCI to gauge what the fan attitude will be.

Maybe so, but if that's the case they did a pretty poor job of it.

If you want people to get behind your proposal, you get out in front of the issue and provide the actual text.

If you want people to fight the proposal, you dribble out a few facts and a lot of buzz words. Wait....hmmm

[audiodb]

As has the fact that the corps press release glosses over a number of logistical and administrative issues to present only the rainbows and puppy dogs view.

The truth is probably somewhere in the middle . . .but the folks that are involved in this dust up aren't just doing it for the greater good of DCI and music educators everywhere.

No, the DCW article is the middle, and the far-uglier full story will never make it into print.

[Matt_S]

Well that's the big difference Matt. You sound like spectators only want to hear the top corps. There are a lot of us that enjoy seeing more than the top (pick a number). Personally I enjoy seeing all sizes and talent levels of corps. Yes, DCA Prelims stands do get fuller as the better corps come out but the first (aka lowest) corps on the field do have a group in the stands watching and applauding.

Interesting that the "adult" circuit seems to be doing better promoting/showing the non-top corps than the "It's all about the kids" one.

As I said earlier, I watch every corps at a show. I see them all from beginning to end. There may be a lot like us, but are there enough? It's fine to wax eloquent about how valuable and enjoyable the Open Class and non-G7 corps are. But if fans (other than you and me - and Jeff Ream) aren't showing that value in dollars then it becomes nothing more than lip service. Saying that an Open Class show can't break even without the presence of a G7 corps is admitting that not enough fans want to see an Open Class show without a top corps.

[Kamarag]

Maybe so, but if that's the case they did a pretty poor job of it.

If you want people to get behind your proposal, you get out in front of the issue and provide the actual text.

If you want people to fight the proposal, you dribble out a few facts and a lot of buzz words. Wait....hmmm

Neither of which has happened in this case.

[Lead]

Maybe this has already been posted (I didn't want to wade through all 50+ pages), but it appears that The Cavaliers are taking the high road here. Maybe they were selectively included without full permission as it was implied earlier...

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ATTN: Cavalier Fans, Friends, Family and Alumni

Regarding the recent "New Touring Concept Presented By Seven DCI corps" proposal announcement (see below), The Cavaliers Drum & Bugle Corps would like to provide our dedicated fans, friends, family and alumni with some clarity as to The Cavaliers position:

* There will be no change in our status as a member of Drum Corps International (DCI). Our founder, Don Warren, was also a founder of DCI, and we believe it is our responsibility to protect what has been built and provide leadership to help DCI grow and evolve.

* The Cavaliers Board of Directors has discussed the proposal in detail and backs the concept of finding new ways to bring more fans and supporters to the drum corps activity.

* The Cavaliers will continue to participate in planning discussions for potential 2011 events.

* The Cavaliers will evaluate any proposed changes to the structure of DCI with a clear focus on what is best for our organization, our brotherhood, continuing our mission and growing the drum corps activity.

As we continue to evaluate this new touring model proposal, we pledge to move forward only on terms that facilitate what's best for the longevity of The Cavaliers and the drum corps activity. While this does not affect the 2010 season, we understand that there will be many questions. The Cavaliers plan on being transparent, and we encourage you to submit any questions or concerns to director@cavaliers.org.

We are grateful to have incredibly dedicated fans, friends, family and alumni, and we look for your patience as these options are further examined.

Adolph DeGrauwe, Director

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http://www.cavaliers.org/cgi-bin/news.pl?c...tory&id=958