"FA16" vs "G7"

[Ed from Kansas]

Wow...you are saying that these corps do not engage in educating their members?

yup, but before all the new toys...

What I am saying is that many of the lower tier corps take kids with no experience, teach them how to march and the hundreds of basic things that make up a drum and bugle corps. (The hard work) The upper tier corps benefit from that teaching and do not have to repeat it. When you hear an upper tier corps tell a kid -- go somewhere and get two or three years marching experience, then come back and talk to us, what is a person supposed to think?

I'm not saying that the upper tier corps are not good or do not work hard. What I am saying is that they benefit greatly from the lower tier teaching corps that become de facto feeder corps for them. Without the lower tier corps, the G7 would not be the "power" they think they are in the world of drum corps.

None of my posts attacked anyone personally, but I would suggest that before you have a knee jerk reaction and want to have a war of words, you read the entire paragraph and not pick out one sentence to object to and make the topic of discussion.

My belief is that the corps that take new kids and work with them are the heart and soul of drum corps. That's what I mean by real drum corps. The activity was designed to be a youth activity and, in my opinion, a 20 year old junior in college is not a youth, though from some of the responses to earlier posts they have not yet grown up.

Hope this clarifies my earlier posts taken totally out of context.

[prodigal bari]

Come on people. Really? You may like the other 16 corps, but they do not bring in the money. The only time any of my students ever say they are going to a show for any corps other then the G7 is when they have a personal affiliation with the corps. Other then that there IS a definite line between the corps that put butts in seats and the rest.

It's reality. Reality might hurt some feelings. Tough.

Problem is, without those 'other 16' corps, unless they do a full-touring model there will not be enough corps in the shows to justify going to a show in these cash-strapped days of yore...and IF they do a single tour of all G7 corps this will limit exposure to the activity. It may last a little while; but when the novelty wears off, will there be enough 'other corps' left to rebuild what was a World Class?

Doesn't any of the arts community have any business sense to know that speciaizing in these economic conditions will truly spell the death knell to this activity? We are going from 80-90 corps in the 70's to basically 22 today because of the segregation that has occurred in stages over the past four decades; and mark my words....this will only serve to kill-off the other 16 corps; and then frankly, all it will tke is one bobble in the G7 to end it, once and for all. All this just because there are a couple in the activity with power and a sense of inflated self-importance.

I love what has happened the past two years; but it just seems so silly, and even stupid, to be doing this; especially NOW.

[Ed from Kansas]

Problem is, without those 'other 16' corps, unless they do a full-touring model there will not be enough corps in the shows to justify going to a show in these cash-strapped days of yore...and IF they do a single tour of all G7 corps this will limit exposure to the activity. It may last a little while; but when the novelty wears off, will there be enough 'other corps' left to rebuild what was a World Class?

Doesn't any of the arts community have any business sense to know that speciaizing in these economic conditions will truly spell the death knell to this activity? We are going from 80-90 corps in the 70's to basically 22 today because of the segregation that has occurred in stages over the past four decades; and mark my words....this will only serve to kill-off the other 16 corps; and then frankly, all it will tke is one bobble in the G7 to end it, once and for all. All this just because there are a couple in the activity with power and a sense of inflated self-importance.

I love what has happened the past two years; but it just seems so silly, and even stupid, to be doing this; especially NOW.

Amen.

[JimF-LowBari]

Amen.

Ditto... Amazing how the other corps AND THE MEMBERS are forgotten so quickly....

[MikeD]

What I am saying is that many of the lower tier corps take kids with no experience, teach them how to march and the hundreds of basic things that make up a drum and bugle corps. (The hard work) The upper tier corps benefit from that teaching and do not have to repeat it. When you hear an upper tier corps tell a kid -- go somewhere and get two or three years marching experience, then come back and talk to us, what is a person supposed to think?

I'm not saying that the upper tier corps are not good or do not work hard. What I am saying is that they benefit greatly from the lower tier teaching corps that become de facto feeder corps for them. Without the lower tier corps, the G7 would not be the "power" they think they are in the world of drum corps.

None of my posts attacked anyone personally, but I would suggest that before you have a knee jerk reaction and want to have a war of words, you read the entire paragraph and not pick out one sentence to object to and make the topic of discussion.

My belief is that the corps that take new kids and work with them are the heart and soul of drum corps. That's what I mean by real drum corps. The activity was designed to be a youth activity and, in my opinion, a 20 year old junior in college is not a youth, though from some of the responses to earlier posts they have not yet grown up.

Hope this clarifies my earlier posts taken totally out of context.

Here is your entire post....

I did not intend to imply that the "G7" are not real drum corps, and I apologize if I hurt somebody's little feelings. My point was that these elitist corps believe that they are drum corps and nobody cares about the other 16. I marched before many of you were born and I remember the amount of teaching that went into the activity. That doesn't happen with the so-called G7. They let the other corps do the teaching and they enjoy the results of someone elses hard work while saying that they are "the act".

That's what I meant by "real drum corps". If that hurts your feelings, live with it. I'm sure the individuals in these corps work hard but the attitude of their management diminishes all of that.

How else can one read the bold part? You are accusing the G7 corps of not teaching their members, at least that is how I read it.

I taught two Garden State corps in the 70's, so yes, I know what it's like to teach kids with no experience. I loved working at that level, but I'd hardly say that the staffs of Garfield, Bayonne, 2-7, et al were not 'teaching' their members.

Real drum corps includes corps at every level, IMO.

[jjeffeory]

What I am saying is that many of the lower tier corps take kids with no experience, teach them how to march and the hundreds of basic things that make up a drum and bugle corps. (The hard work) The upper tier corps benefit from that teaching and do not have to repeat it. When you hear an upper tier corps tell a kid -- go somewhere and get two or three years marching experience, then come back and talk to us, what is a person supposed to think?

I'm not saying that the upper tier corps are not good or do not work hard. What I am saying is that they benefit greatly from the lower tier teaching corps that become de facto feeder corps for them. Without the lower tier corps, the G7 would not be the "power" they think they are in the world of drum corps.

None of my posts attacked anyone personally, but I would suggest that before you have a knee jerk reaction and want to have a war of words, you read the entire paragraph and not pick out one sentence to object to and make the topic of discussion.

My belief is that the corps that take new kids and work with them are the heart and soul of drum corps. That's what I mean by real drum corps. The activity was designed to be a youth activity and, in my opinion, a 20 year old junior in college is not a youth, though from some of the responses to earlier posts they have not yet grown up.

Hope this clarifies my earlier posts taken totally out of context.

Ed, I'm more on your side of this than the other side... I just wanted to point out that I marched my corps with no previous drum corps experience and was taught their way of doing things.

[NR_Ohiobando]

yeah...

so..uh...make sure you continue your support of the non "G7" corps!

...

yay!

[perc2100]

fine if they want to run their own. but their own involves others of DCI, wants more voting power and wants more money. if this were to be open to just more than 7 and the voting thing was not in play, i could see it having potential. but it's so much more than that

I find it kind of humorous in a way that the G7 folks want to do their own thing AND do the DCI thing: kind of a case of "we want our cake plus we want to eat it as well." I wonder, since the G7 shows are non-DCI sanctioned, will they have non-DCI judges and sheets? If they all perform at a G7 exclusive show in Friday, will the fans pay as much (or more) for a ticket to see just 7 corps than they would pay to see EVERYONE the following day/night at a big regional? If our market for drum corps is small as it is, will we have enough fans to have two financially viable shows on the same night(s)? What do the staff members of these corps think: part of the big key of being competitively successful is having the perfect blend of rehearsal days and show days. If the G7 scores are busy Friday - Sunday with either their shows of G7, that leaves a small window of time for DCI weekday shows plus rehearsal days (and free days and laundry days).

Lots of questions for sure, and I wonder if there has been any market research by the G7 corps to see if some of there is a suitable answer to the above questions. It's hard to blame the corps for wanting a bigger slice of the financial pie if they feel they are getting under-paid for their contributions to DCI. And I do think that there are some good ideas in the proposal. But was Tour of Champions a hit because of the extra show stuff (instant encores and the mass playing), or was it a hit because it was CA fans starving for Finals-level performances by a large chunk of the current power-house shows?

I know when Blue Devils did the theater gigs in the late 90's they seemed to work great, and the experience was positive for all involved: something 'different' than the 11 minute field shows that fans go to see, extra performances for the members that were a bit more laid back (and a bit less stressful), and extra revenue for BD that came at zero expense to the rest of DCI. I don't know any financial facts to know how much BD made (for example, did they make more at a stage show than they would've made at a DCI show), and obviously there's a reason why they didn't do it after only a few years. I appreciate the corps thinking outside the box as far as delivering more performances to the fans. But I honestly wonder if there is a large enough market for these extra shows to justify alienating their non-G7 peers and fans.

[perc2100]

Ahh yes I am a borg. Clever.

I think the character verbiage is "WE are the borg," since the borg don't have a singular personality and are instead plugged into the entire race and think/act as a collective.

Wow, I can be such a nerd sometimes!

[Stu]

We went from 31st to 7th in 4 years, so it can happen. We also folded just 3 years later, so be careful what you wish for, and how you manage it.

Just out of curiosity, what does it say about the actual well being of DCI when three of the four corps that Steve Knob has been associated with have folded? (Guardsmen, Suncoast, and Florida Wave)