Official DCP G7 Proposal Discussion Thread

[JimF-LowBari]

Well... yeah, except for the "suck" part. That language is unnecessary. It's probably not seven, and we can argue the merits of including this corps or that corps... but at that point we're just haggling over where the line should be drawn.

More sarcasism on my part, but would wager some posters would not say this sarcistically.

As for using 7 as a number, I'm going by what's on the proposal which was 7 or 8 depending how I read it. So setting a hard number did not come from me.

When you run your corps in such a way that you depend on other corps for survival, then you've intentionally set your corps under the whim of the larger corps. If that corps decides that the benefit to them no longer justifies the costs incurred, then the onus is on your corps to do something about it. It might be a sink or swim approach, but by definition a corps that cannot swim on its own is a drain on the activity. Resources that could be used to grow the presence of the G7 corps on a national stage are instead sunk into keeping many corps afloat. I'd love there to be hundreds and hundreds of active corps, just as everyone reading this thread I'm sure would agree. But DCI cannot fund those hundreds of corps alone. This proposal acknowledges that, and if nothing else pushes DCI to refocus its mission. The crude way to phrase it is 'shedding dead weight', but I don't think this is necessarily a bad thing. The priorities of the Blue Devils and Revolution are vastly different. Let's recognize that, and allow corps like Revolution and Oregon Crusaders find a business model that works best for them.

Under the current DCI system the G7 corps depend on the other corps (WC anyway) for the Finals and other shows. But after reading the rest it sounds like you think either the G7 or corps like Rev and OreCru should go a different way. Which ones should leave DCI or should we start two news organizations and just forget DCI altogether?

Sacarism back on kinda.... What happens if a corps is not pulling it's weight under the new systeM and who decides?

Edited May 25, 2010 by JimF-LowBari

[Michael Boo]

I think it's time to bid goodbye to George, whether by his choice or by DCI's. Time for him to move on and create his magic elsewhere. I've had my fill of it.

I've stayed out of this controversy, and I will continue to do so.

That said, if George didn't exist, we'd have to invent him. I haven't agreed with him all the time and sometimes, I've tremendously disagreed with him. However, he rarely fails to give us something to think about and to talk about and he's been courageous in stepping forward and offering ideas that no one else is willing to do. He has the body armor of an armadillo and you're not going to hurt his feelings by disagreeing with him.

It is my belief that once all this dust settles, we're going to be a healthier activity and just about everyone is going to be happy with how things turn out. How will it all turn out? I don't know. But I do know that those deeply involved in drum corps are resolute in their desire to see something good come from all of this. I wish them all luck. And, selfishly perhaps, I hope to continue to be a part of it all.

[OrlandoContraAlum]

So much discussion, why not throw a couple of pence in myself...

I think that the basic premise that the G7 is operating under is that the Tour of Champions concept in 2004 was very successful, and that format of show would continue to be successful in the context of the season. (This is simply part of my interpretation)

I did not get to see said Tour, but from all intents it WAS a great, entertaining show. I just don't know that it is the format would actually BE successful in the context of the season, and not as a "special added thing". There were several reasons that may have impacted the success of the ToC, to wit:

- you had the 6 remaining World Championship corps in attendance

- the ToC took place at the end of the season, where the corps were at their highest perfomance level

- the ToC took place in California, a location that had been starved for decades for quality late season shows

- California drum corps fans knew that the ToC was a "test run" for a west coast finals, and did what needed to be done (in terms of attendance) to essentially guarantee a finals in CA

I have many many other thoughts on this proposal, but I think that there is enough talk, so I will just leave this bit and bow out (and continue to watch)

[JimF-LowBari]

Sacarism back on kinda.... What happens if a corps is not pulling it's weight under the new systeM and who decides?

Thought of this after I hit send.....

What about a corps that is able to pay all it's bills and is on good legs financially? If this corps is not in the G7 or top 10/12 is this corps "not pulling it's weight for the good of DCI".

[ShortAndFast]

Heard this too. Indy was one of the most profitable championships they've had. Also heard DCI took a bath on OnQ (something like half a mill). Wasn't that the idea of a lot of the G7? Didn't DCI shell out another half a mill dealing with licensing of the legacy CD/DVD collection?

So basically, the Indy championships were financially successful but DCI has spent a lot of resources on other programs? I can see how that allows Dan to claim success, but for DCI to still have financial troubles.

Not sure I buy this, though:

The corps who I have no respect for, in a proposal that is demanding they overthrow the kingdom, would paint the most dismal picture they can.

They were trying to paint this picture to insiders. I guarantee that everyone on the old board had current and accurate financial statements for DCI. Hop may indeed have wanted to tell the darkest story he could, but neither board members nor G7 directors nor non-G7 directors would take it seriously unless there was some support for it in DCI's actual finances.

[cybersnyder]

Instead of adding lasers, smoke machines, Taylor Swift videos and text voting to make the event more exciting why not make the individual shows more exciting? Stop writing for the judges and write the shows for the people in the stands. Even if you line up all the Hooters girls along the sideline, you're not going to get people to attend that have no interest in drum corps or marching band. It's a limited, fickle market so listen to them and if you give them a good, solid product they will come. They will buy your souvenirs and send you money during your donation campaigns. But if you shaft your loyal base, don't expect mainstream America to come and replace them in the stands. They don't care.

[Peel Paint]

After a few days now of reflection, I think what bothers me the most is that if you take the underlying assumptions about the proposal seriously, and I'm sure the G7 does, then I see no way this will end *except* for those corps forming their new organization.

Mike

I agree. All we can do is speculate, but I look at it that Hop and the rest of Gekko 7 had to realize that the vote-weighting part of the proposal, and the money part of the proposal, would be so unacceptable to other corps that they would rise up and fight back.

Either way, they get what they want. In the unlikely event corps see it their way and give them what they want, they get much better control of all aspects of junior drum corps including the finances and creative control. In the likely event they don't, they have the excuse to leave and do it their way. I don't see a peaceful solution to this.

[Richard]

Well... yeah, except for the "suck" part. That language is unnecessary. It's probably not seven, and we can argue the merits of including this corps or that corps... but at that point we're just haggling over where the line should be drawn. Most participants in this discussion have already conceded that there are corps who take more from the activity than they earn. They've conceded this point with every protest than Corps X cannot survive without the support the G7 corps provide. An organization with limited resources cannot maintain that dynamic for long and expect to survive.

I read the proposal in full this morning, and I'm amazed how closely my posts in the past week have mirrored what was actually said. I have concerns about the proposed show format, but the first half of the proposal makes a lot of sense to me. The problem of limited resources must be confronted. DCI cannot be all things to all corps. It seems many on here want DCI to be able to provide for every corps' every need, and that simply cannot happen. So instead we have to make decisions about how to allocate the resources we do have. The fact of limited resources requires that we make trade-offs. None of us are going to be able to get everything we want moving forward.

Now, if you wanted to sell the activity to someone new, would you do that with the Cascades or the Blue Devils? So the Blue Devils should be your priority. All this talk of brotherhood and camaraderie is nice, until there's not enough revenue to cover the costs incurred by all corps. At that point, what right does Pacific Crest have to revenue pulled in by the Blue Devils? What right do Open Class corps have to resources paid for by the G7 corps? An appeal to resources based on need alone does nothing to sway me.

When you run your corps in such a way that you depend on other corps for survival, then you've intentionally set your corps under the whim of the larger corps. If that corps decides that the benefit to them no longer justifies the costs incurred, then the onus is on your corps to do something about it. It might be a sink or swim approach, but by definition a corps that cannot swim on its own is a drain on the activity. Resources that could be used to grow the presence of the G7 corps on a national stage are instead sunk into keeping many corps afloat. I'd love there to be hundreds and hundreds of active corps, just as everyone reading this thread I'm sure would agree. But DCI cannot fund those hundreds of corps alone. This proposal acknowledges that, and if nothing else pushes DCI to refocus its mission. The crude way to phrase it is 'shedding dead weight', but I don't think this is necessarily a bad thing. The priorities of the Blue Devils and Revolution are vastly different. Let's recognize that, and allow corps like Revolution and Oregon Crusaders find a business model that works best for them.

Wait...what?

You make it sound like the G7 are propping up Open Class. Do Open Class corps receive any funds what-so-ever from World Class shows? What services does DCI render Open Class that are being paid for by the Blue Devils? Show coordination? I always thought the Open Class payouts were mostly based off of the revenue generated by Open Class shows. Is this wrong?

You say "DCI cannot fund those hundreds of corps alone"...How much does DCI contribute to funding ANY corps?

[CorpsFan.]

So basically, the Indy championships were financially successful but DCI has spent a lot of resources on other programs? I can see how that allows Dan to claim success, but for DCI to still have financial troubles.

Not sure I buy this, though:

They were trying to paint this picture to insiders. I guarantee that everyone on the old board had current and accurate financial statements for DCI. Hop may indeed have wanted to tell the darkest story he could, but neither board members nor G7 directors nor non-G7 directors would take it seriously unless there was some support for it in DCI's actual finances.

I'm no finance guy. How many on the board are finance guys? I'll be the first to admit that if you show me the 990 mentioned earlier, I wouldn't know what I'm looking at. How many of the directors are sittin where I am (in the dark)? Get someone in front of a room like that and tell me it's all doom and gloom, what do you think I'm gonna believe?

[dbc03]

Instead of adding lasers, smoke machines, Taylor Swift videos and text voting to make the event more exciting why not make the individual shows more exciting? Stop writing for the judges and write the shows for the people in the stands. Even if you line up all the Hooters girls along the sideline, you're not going to get people to attend that have no interest in drum corps or marching band. It's a limited, fickle market so listen to them and if you give them a good, solid product they will come. They will buy your souvenirs and send you money during your donation campaigns. But if you shaft your loyal base, don't expect mainstream America to come and replace them in the stands. They don't care.

I haven't seen a championship show in the past 10 years that wasn't extremely entertaining