Misdirected Hostility

[formerBDbari]

It's the judges you should hate and not the performers or G7 or Hopkins or Gibbs.

The judges are the reason for your anger. As a past performer in DCI, I would not ever think of booing any corps for winning or for being beat by another corps.

It's July 10th... And last time I checked, an 88 doesn't win the world title.

So get over it. Grow up and quit hating one corps for winning one show in early July...

For all of you math wizards, what is 88-85.7 ?

Answer: 2.3. Meaning... Not 3 points.

That spread can be .1 tomorrow.

Get over it and hate the judges if you must.

But, respect all DCI performers by never booing.

And really... Grow up.

[DCImonkey]

It's the judges you should hate and not the performers or G7 or Hopkins or Gibbs.

But the judges have feelings too! They work hard and run around the field all summer....we should show them respect

The judges are the reason for your anger. As a past performer in DCI, I would not ever think of booing any corps for winning or for being beat by another corps.

Are you a sports fans? Have you ever booed the crap out of the opposing team? It's awesome! Especially the Dallas Cowboys....God I loathe the Dallas Cowboys.

It's July 10th... And last time I checked, an 88 doesn't win the world title.

This is SO true.... you need at least an 88.1 like the Anaheim Kingsmen scored to win it all back in 72

[ContraFart]

It's the judges you should hate and not the performers or G7 or Hopkins or Gibbs.

The judges are the reason for your anger. As a past performer in DCI, I would not ever think of booing any corps for winning or for being beat by another corps.

It's July 10th... And last time I checked, an 88 doesn't win the world title.

So get over it. Grow up and quit hating one corps for winning one show in early July...

For all of you math wizards, what is 88-85.7 ?

Answer: 2.3. Meaning... Not 3 points.

That spread can be .1 tomorrow.

Get over it and hate the judges if you must.

But, respect all DCI performers by never booing.

And really... Grow up.

Well I think part of the hostility lends itself to many bigger arguments. First you are right about the judges themselves. Every year there has been drum corps, there has been major disagreements about the judging system, accusations of slotting, keeping spreads, and even incompetent individual judges. This argument can be validly seen even last year with Phantom being put in the scoring range of Cadets and Cavies, while ending up a 9th place corps.

Another argument is the accessibility of the show themselves, and how corps (especially in the G7) design their shows more for the judging community rather than the fan community.

Another argument is the lack of parity in drum corps and how only 8 corps (6 active) have won championships in nearly 40 years of competition.

Another is (and I think this has been discussed most) is the concept of individual demand vs simultaneous demand, and overall demand vs performance value. I dont think it has been discussed in those terms, but this is actually the argument that emotionally drives me when making comments against the Blue Devils.

Also some of the same hate (although not this much) was spewed toward the Cavies almost 10 years ago, but the main difference is that now we have 2 corps who have never won, now on the threshold of getting that first win. Something that hasn't happened in 15 years. Think about it, almost all of the kids marching now probably dont realize, or pay mind to the fact that Madison has won 2 championships, and the last time Santa Clara won is when this years age outs were 10 or 11 years old. Dynasties create fans wherever the dynasty is taking place, and haters everywhere else. As a heat fan, I am already getting alot of hate because of the caliber of our future team, and we haven't even filled the roster yet, much less played a game.

And Finally we have the G7 argument, and that is why Hopkins and Gibbs are getting the hate. Hopkins because....well....people think he is satan incarnate, and Gibbs because he wrote the power point that people think will kill the activity.

All in all I dont think a single person on this board, no matter how emotional, or irrational has any negative bias toward the kids who march REGARDLESS OF THE CORPS!!!!!! All the visceral reactions of these people on this board (who are obviously fanatical about the activity, or they wouldn't waste their time reading or posting) is a result of the politics, and situations that surround these kids rather than the kids themselves. I am sure when corps A loses by .1 points, that fans are not angry at the kids for not giving 100% (because undoubtedly they do), they are angry of the fact that this is a subjective sport, and they think that their opinion is more correct than the next guy. The important part to realize is that in this forum, people come from an emotional point of view, and every once in a while there will be a hint of truth and revelation. I have found that the individual person is incapable of total rational thought.

But then again what do I know?

[Piper]

It's like any other sport or competitive activity. The minute you become #1 you become the one to BEAT. There's a target on your chest and it can get pretty big and heavy sometimes, but in all honesty I've never seen a corps win that sucked.

[WestCoaster]

Are you a sports fans? Have you ever booed the crap out of the opposing team? It's awesome! Especially the Dallas Cowboys....God I loathe the Dallas Cowboys

Really?

If you truly believe what you say, that these two things are really equitable, then you should boo the Blue Devils (or whatever corps you "loathe") DURING their show. And before and after too.

Not just when the scores are announced.

Anything else would be cowardice.

So go for it bro. Tell em how you feel!

And see if you can get any fellow fans in the stand to endorse your efforts while you're at it.

[WestCoaster]

Another is (and I think this has been discussed most) is the concept of individual demand vs simultaneous demand, and overall demand vs performance value. I dont think it has been discussed in those terms, but this is actually the argument that emotionally drives me when making comments against the Blue Devils.

Could you explain and clarify this notion a bit more?

[dckid80]

Well I think part of the hostility lends itself to many bigger arguments. First you are right about the judges themselves. Every year there has been drum corps, there has been major disagreements about the judging system, accusations of slotting, keeping spreads, and even incompetent individual judges. This argument can be validly seen even last year with Phantom being put in the scoring range of Cadets and Cavies, while ending up a 9th place corps.

Another argument is the accessibility of the show themselves, and how corps (especially in the G7) design their shows more for the judging community rather than the fan community.

Another argument is the lack of parity in drum corps and how only 8 corps (6 active) have won championships in nearly 40 years of competition.

Another is (and I think this has been discussed most) is the concept of individual demand vs simultaneous demand, and overall demand vs performance value. I dont think it has been discussed in those terms, but this is actually the argument that emotionally drives me when making comments against the Blue Devils.

Also some of the same hate (although not this much) was spewed toward the Cavies almost 10 years ago, but the main difference is that now we have 2 corps who have never won, now on the threshold of getting that first win. Something that hasn't happened in 15 years. Think about it, almost all of the kids marching now probably dont realize, or pay mind to the fact that Madison has won 2 championships, and the last time Santa Clara won is when this years age outs were 10 or 11 years old. Dynasties create fans wherever the dynasty is taking place, and haters everywhere else. As a heat fan, I am already getting alot of hate because of the caliber of our future team, and we haven't even filled the roster yet, much less played a game.

And Finally we have the G7 argument, and that is why Hopkins and Gibbs are getting the hate. Hopkins because....well....people think he is satan incarnate, and Gibbs because he wrote the power point that people think will kill the activity.

All in all I dont think a single person on this board, no matter how emotional, or irrational has any negative bias toward the kids who march REGARDLESS OF THE CORPS!!!!!! All the visceral reactions of these people on this board (who are obviously fanatical about the activity, or they wouldn't waste their time reading or posting) is a result of the politics, and situations that surround these kids rather than the kids themselves. I am sure when corps A loses by .1 points, that fans are not angry at the kids for not giving 100% (because undoubtedly they do), they are angry of the fact that this is a subjective sport, and they think that their opinion is more correct than the next guy. The important part to realize is that in this forum, people come from an emotional point of view, and every once in a while there will be a hint of truth and revelation. I have found that the individual person is incapable of total rational thought.

But then again what do I know?

You get points for trying to interject logic into an emotional discussion.

[jwillis35]

I agree with the OP. I never took anything out on BD. Have liked that corps for years and completely agreed with the decision last night, except...the spread. I took that out on the judges. And actually, its not all the captions so much as GE that I just can't understand.

The Cadets were way behind in GE (and other captions), but it's how BD is scoring so high in GE. In my opinion, you could almost flip their GE scores (well not quite, but close, maybe Cadets up by .4 in GE). But if I take this further it is going to sound like BD bashing and that's not what I want. But I definitely hit the judging last night. I think DCI has some major problems with its judging, its definition of GE and how to assess it.

Oh well. I am over it now. Had some good sleep. BD is amazingly good.

[oldtimedrummer]

Another is (and I think this has been discussed most) is the concept of individual demand vs simultaneous demand, and overall demand vs performance value. I dont think it has been discussed in those terms, but this is actually the argument that emotionally drives me when making comments against the Blue Devils.

Ah, the "D" word rears its ugly head. Demand for the sake of demand isn't part of the judging criteria. You don't say Beethoven's fifth is better than his ninth because it's more "demanding" to play. You wouldn't say Monet is better than Renoir because his brushstrokes were more difficult. A simple and cheaper film can be more effective then one that's much more "difficult" to act, direct and produce.

You look at QUALITY. Which program has the best composition, the most logical orchestration, both vertically and horizontally, and which one has the best use of the elements of design. (Line, shape, texture, negative space, balance, symmetry /asymmetry, dimension, etc...from both a musical and visual standpoint) Which program has the more developed program concept and offers the greatest range and variety of effects? Granted, judges do consider content, or "what" the performers are being asked to do, but it's more within the context of quality than quantity. IMO, It was BD easy last night. That could change in a few weeks. 2.3 is not insurmountable. I think a bigger judging question is how does PR win visual performance at the Zoo with that color guard? That's the call that has me scratching my head.

[2000Cadet]

It's the judges you should hate and not the performers or G7 or Hopkins or Gibbs.

The judges are the reason for your anger. As a past performer in DCI, I would not ever think of booing any corps for winning or for being beat by another corps.

It's July 10th... And last time I checked, an 88 doesn't win the world title.

So get over it. Grow up and quit hating one corps for winning one show in early July...

For all of you math wizards, what is 88-85.7 ?

Answer: 2.3. Meaning... Not 3 points.

That spread can be .1 tomorrow.

Get over it and hate the judges if you must.

But, respect all DCI performers by never booing.

And really... Grow up.

I love how someone can start a post telling someone to grow up when his post is filled with anger.

Edited July 11, 2010 by 2000Cadet