Academy question

[jwscv87]

In my opinion the ONLY reason why anyone would have a problem with the Academy's touring model (or Mandarins, or Cascades, or Pacific Crest) is that they are tremendously over consumed with the competitive aspect of drum corps. Personally, I discount they "other corps do it" argument pretty much immediately. I don't care. Every corps situation is different, and every corps situation differs from year to year. However, the 500 mile radius information someone posted comparing the Colts to the Academy was perfect and very telling. Try the same analysis with the Cascades the past few years and see what you get (answer = 3 to 4 shows). The fact is the argument that other corps do it so they should to is a red herring.

Competitively I think the limited schedule hurts much more than it helps so, IMO, that should trump any argument but I will grant that others will disagree and argue that the time home helps competitively. Bottom line, I don't care if it hurts or helps. I don't care if corps A can tour full time and you can't. ...just keep on fielding a corps and I will be happy.

[Photographer Jim]

The more I listen to this, the more frustrated I get. Maybe (well, just maybe) it would bother me less if even ONE World Class Corps from east of the Rockies would find it in their "national tour" budget to come out here to California and play just ONE show! [Then again, maybe if they can't afford to, they should consider dropping down to Open Class until they can afford to truly tour nationally.] (ok - I feel better now. End of rant)

(Thank you Blue Knights, Troopers, Cascades, and (of course) The Academy for putting CA shows in your 2010 tour)

{edited for typo}

Edited July 21, 2010 by Photographer Jim

[AlexL]

The more I listen to this, the more frustrated I get. Maybe (well, just maybe) it would bother me less if even ONE World Class Corps from east of the Rockies would find it in their "national tour" budget to come out here to California and play just ONE show! [Then again, maybe if they can't afford to, they should consider dropping down to Open Class until they can afford to truly tour nationally.] (ok - I feel better now. End of rant)

(Thank you Blue Knights, Troopers, and (of course) The Academy for putting CA shows in your 2010 tour)

{edited for typo}

Im sick of this complaint. Yall had 4 of last year's top 12 out there this year, including 2 of the top 5. Thats more than a lot of the country gets. Also, compare how much more it would add for say, academy to come east with SCV and BD, compared to what it would take for a midwestern or eastern corps to swing all the way west and then back east for the remainder of tour... that idea is much more costly. Plus, if these corps head west, who replaces them at the shows out in the east\midwest for those shows? The midwestern\upper plains shows are primarily in the early season, with the exception of a couple on the way to minneapolis (which itself is still only mid-season).

Edited July 21, 2010 by AlexL

[supersop]

I keep seeing this 35 number as some magical affirmation of what makes a World Class corps.

Sorry but even 35 shows is weak compared to when I marched. This is due to less corps, no regional organizations, further travel distances between shows and an expectation that the national touring model currently exercised by DCI is somehow more profitable than it was back when DCE, DCM, DCSouth, GLJA, and a plethora of other regional organizations existed to foster a regional COST EFFECTIVE first month of touring for all the corps.

I would much prefer seeing a 200 mile drive between shows with 6 or 7 hours on the floor for a month compared to the 800 mile sprints between shows that we see now. It's driven up the cost of touring and reeks immense stress on the MM's bodies (and that's not even taking into account the added physical demands of today's visual programs).

I haven't gone back 25 years to look at the books of DCI and see what their bottom line looked like compared to now .. but I would wager they were turning a higher profit margin by only controlling one month of the tour compared to how it is now. The corps had more performance opportunities because there were more shows available to them with smaller distances between shows for that first month. It put alot of money in the corps accounts that they aren't seeing now.

Academy's situation can only be blamed on the loss of corps (in the hundreds) and the loss of regional organizations that put on more performance opportunities for the corps with less distance between gigs. PERIOD!!!

DCI made it's bed ....... they created the DCI we have today .. and because, to some extent, they know what they've done ...... they will allow developing programs (or even established programs with financial issues) the opportunity to limit their touring model in order to be there when it matters most ......... FINALS WEEK .. and the next year .. and the next and the next.

I also believe that DCI could be doing a much better job of organizing the West Cost and SW tours ....... it always seems that the Midwest has been and will continue to be the priority for the proper flow of a tour schedule .. and the coasts are in the back seat time and time again. If they streamlined the tour and started all the corps West of the Rockies to start in the middle of Cali, head North, then loop back South, then across Texas and then pick up with the rest of the corps on tour ....... ALL OF THE WEST COAST AND SW CORPS WOULD BE IN A BETTER POSITION TO TOUR AND DO MORE SHOWS.

I said earlier that 35 is a somewhat weak number. Here's where I draw my opinion from:

The Cadets ... this is from corpsreps.com and I'm sure there are some missing scores in these totals. And the Cadets are a Coast corps .. not in the hotbed.

1982 39 scores

1983 39 scores

1984 39 scores

1985 33 scores

1986 30 scores

1987 35 scores

1988 37 scores

1989 37 scores

1990 37 scores

1991 39 scores

1992 37 scores

1993 36 scores

1994 39 scores

1995 38 scores

1996 33 scores

Madison Scouts

1983 40 scores

1984 37 scores

1985 39 scores

1986 34 scores

1987 38 scores

1988 29 scores - did a month on Europe to boot

1989 39 scores

1990 36 scores

1991 43 scores

1992 39 scores

1993 40 scores

1994 41 scores

1995 40 scores

1996 38 scores

1997 34 scores

1998 30 scores

Bluecoats

1988 37 scores

1989 32 scores

1990 38 scores

1991 36 scores

1992 36 scores

1993 35 scores

1994 30 scores

1995 26 scores

1996 25 scores

Phantom Regiment

1989 35 scores

1990 39 scores

1991 41 scores

1992 40 scores

1993 38 scores

1994 37 scores

1995 34 scores

1996 27 scores

1997 34 scores

1998 38 scores

1999 37 scores

2000 37 scores

2001 35 scores

2002 33 scores

2003 35 scores

2004 34 scores

2005 32 scores

2006 34 scores

2007 36 scores

2008 29 scores

2009 30 scores

2010 30 scores

See a trend?

The Academy is doing just fine and as they should considering their Geography, Financial Stability Goals, Lack of a solid tour plan by DCI for coastal corps, and the fact that they are even touring in World Class for such a young corps in this current economic situation. Don't stop being so bumm hurt because they're competitive and knocking on the door of a finalist spot. If they beat your favorite corps ......... it's because they were smart and did things the best they could with the hand they've been dealt. Show them a bit of respect for their accomplishments and tip your cap with good sportsmanship if they continue to move up. Then contact DCI and find out why they are doing such a lackluster job in organizing a tour that can help them stay on the road and make money without having to drive 1500 miles just to reach the tour you so adamantly feel they should be exercising.

/logical rant

[TallAZEuph]

Oh, come on. Stop interrupting a whiny ##### session with revelations that the Academy leadership has a thoughtful, reasoned approach to developing the corps!

You're right. Let me try this again:

Y'all iz a bunch o Hataz!1! Snap sonnnnnnn! Quit disrespekin my home team!

[skajerk]

Im sick of this complaint. Yall had 4 of last year's top 12 out there this year, including 2 of the top 5. Thats more than a lot of the country gets.

You're kidding, right?

Let's start with 4 of last year's top 12... CA sees those same 4 corps every year. Do I even need to talk about the 2 out of the top 5 since those 2 or from CA?

Also, compare how much more it would add for say, academy to come east with SCV and BD, compared to what it would take for a midwestern or eastern corps to swing all the way west and then back east for the remainder of tour... that idea is much more costly.

Oh... you mean the same thing that EVERY WESTERN CORPS HAS DONE FOR DECADES? Besides, this is the exact thing that The Academy is trying NOT to do for the time being!

Plus, if these corps head west, who replaces them at the shows out in the east\midwest for those shows? The midwestern\upper plains shows are primarily in the early season, with the exception of a couple on the way to minneapolis (which itself is still only mid-season).

The rest of your argument has no merit. The season in the west ended last Sunday. What's left for the east, south and mid-west? Oh yeah, 30 shows plus finals week.

So yeah, I'm sick of this argument!

Edited July 21, 2010 by skajerk

[Photographer Jim]

Im sick of this complaint. Yall had 4 of last year's top 12 out there this year, including 2 of the top 5.

True. We had BD, SCV, BK, and Troop. ALL Rockies and west. Not a mid-west or eastern corps amongst them.

Thats more than a lot of the country gets. Also, compare how much more it would add for say, academy to come east with SCV and BD, compared to what it would take for a midwestern or eastern corps to swing all the way west and then back east for the remainder of tour... that idea is much more costly. Plus, if these corps head west, who replaces them at the shows out in the east\midwest for those shows? The midwestern\upper plains shows are primarily in the early season, with the exception of a couple on the way to minneapolis (which itself is still only mid-season).

This is actually to the point I was making (with some sarcasm intended). Corps need to make financial decisions as to what is best for them (and to DCI as a whole), so that they can continue to function successfully. Its not ideal for those of us here in NorCal, but we live with it with the knowledge that that it is what is necessary in the absence of more WC corps on the West Coast which might make it more reasonable (and financially profitable) for east/midwest corps to travel out here for competitions sake. But we can't get more western corps up to that level if they are ground under prematurely by demands that THEY expand THEIR tours even when they are not yet to the point of being financially capable of it.

I don't believe that the Academy gets any advantage from not being able to afford to tour more and play more shows (and get the valuable feedback that more competition would bring). In the meantime, they are doing the best they can to maximize the resources they have such that in a few years they will not only be able to perform in a full slate of shows, but will be able to do so as a stable and valuable WC member. For now, the rest of the country may have to be patient to see this up and coming corps.

[supersop]

Also, compare how much more it would add for say, academy to come east with SCV and BD, compared to what it would take for a midwestern or eastern corps to swing all the way west and then back east for the remainder of tour... that idea is much more costly.

Not to mention that by moving these corps East prematurely would in effect NEGLECT a market that proved itself when DCI was in LA and had the largest crowd in decades at Finals. That should have sent a clear message that the West Coast market is ripe and wants MORE drum corps ...... you KNOW they made a huge profit from finals that year .. and should have turned their sites on ramping up their plans to send more corps in that direction. YOU GO WHERE THE MONEY IS ... and CA definitely supported drum corps and DCI in a big way that year. So why pull another top level corps away from that market prematurely??????? Riddle me that? I dont' even think BD and SCV should be going East so soon. None of it makes sense to me from a business standpoint whatsoever.

Edited July 21, 2010 by supersop

[HPUEuph]

Nice going [above].

I know most of this debate is futile and fueled by stubbornness to comprehend the intricacies of a tour, financial responsibilities and other logistical concerns of running a corps, however, it is humorous to scan the pages and see the many different arguments pro and against from the outlandish to the logical.

Anyway, being a Southern California native much of this conversation hits home in many ways but does anybody happen to remember the angst against Championships being merely out here in CA in 2007?; I can't remember how many complaints I heard about the amount of driving fans had to do to see the sights in CA and the other costs such as fuel, housing and food. I know part of this is for lack of a better term an East Coast way of thought. The West is about travel, CA is 770 Miles long by 250 miles wide equaling 163,696 sq miles now compare that to Ohio, Illinois, Indiana and Wisconsin combined; 204,653 sq miles, a difference of almost 41,000 sq miles.To travel in the west is the equivalent of traversing multiple states back East yet not leaving your own as our states are so large and make up majority of the Top 10 states in land area. Combine sq. mileage, logistical concerns and finances, it is a serious endeavor to tour from West to East. This brings me back to my point of 2007, there were complaints it's too hard on the Midwest and East coast corps...oh boo hoo, look at what we do year in and year out. Get some perspective.

I know the smaller shows out here in CA are primarily for the Open Class corps with World Class thrown in and I know I never cared for attending these when I marched in 2005-2007 but by having the few World Class corps there, people actually show up to these shows that otherwise would be mostly unattended. How many times do most people skip Open class corps at shows yet by having corps as Academy, PC, and Mandarins for example there people show. It had been told to me by our director that we did these shows for the benefit of the show and the region where otherwise no one would attend. I respect that.

So, when I hear people complaining about the corps out west with the "limited tours" I have to roll my eyes. There is more to Drum Corps than competing though it is the bases of the activity but there is much for to it than a score. We all preach the experience on here yet in these debates, it's how you shouldn't compete if you're not like most everyone else, contradictory anybody?

Lastly, like the media, most things and including DCI is East Coast based or in this case Midwest and while the epicenter of the activity is located there, the sentiments against the touring styles primarily of these Western Corps in particular will be criticized. To construct a tour from West to East when the activity is predominantly centered East of the Mississippi and you still have the obligation to your fans to perform at home without the rest of DCI traveling out west to make more competitive shows and the financial expenditures needed, I can not fault these corps for their model. I know it does affect their scores as I have heard from the mouths of certain DCI ppl who still believe it shouldn't yet does, but as long as these corps put fourth a competitive program and offer the kids a great experience, who cares. They stay financially afloat with less and make the most of what finances they have as opposed to the more endowed corps who have gained the ability to travel more liberally with a larger wallet than the Academy's, PC's and Mandarins of the DCI world.

[Photographer Jim]

Oh, just to clear any doubts, I am NOT an Academy Honk. (Really .... honest) I mean, yes, I have spent a little time in Mesa when my father lived there years ago, but I'm actually............. a die-hard BD fan! Lived in Pleasant Hill, a (cough, cough) suburb of Concord! (BD used to practice less than a mile from my house.)

Its really just a matter of my being a loooooong time drumcorps fan (the first corps I can remember seeing was HNC in ...... 1957(?) at a VFW or AL meet in Atlantic City) who wants to see the activity continue to be successful, and who loves to see a young corps fight the good fight and move successfully to maturity.

[i feel pretty good now. "long time listener, first time caller" - Rookie actually got a "get real" response to a post. I figured I might be ignored for at least another dozen or so! Heck, I must be on a roll!]

OK, off to bed.