Academy question

[Tanda]

Cascades (which concluded it's tour at this show) had a mighty fine performance, very impressive all around, shame they couldn't continue the tour, audiences would have been very entertained and very pleased with this mighty fine entry from Seattle, Washington.... Unfortunately (or fortunately as the case may be) their guard/pit brought along, as part of the show theme,"Silver Lining," unbrellas and the sounds of thunder to this usually dry desert, The City of Mesa decided to add to their GE with literally an abundance of rain and lightening which flashed on cue as the Cascades performed. Dispite their performance being rained out midway through, the crowd very much appreciated a full rerun of their show once the storm passed.

This was not Cascades last show of the tour! Very much miss information.

More on topic, Location of the Corps plays a major part in how they tour.

1st we had 3 shows total within 500 miles from us as it has been restated many times in this topic mid west has a lot more opportunity for there corps to compete.

2nd not mentioned is in the NW schools are in session longer (yes even the universities) Which puts a delay is the start of our all days. Do not have exact numbers but I would guess that at least 80% of Cascades members were Finnishing classes when Most Corps were starting there all day. Another disadvantage.

3rd I don't know what your rehearsals are like, but ares tend to be between 12 and 16 hour days. I am sure that Academy even with taking breaks during the peek heat of the day come close to that hours wise. Any one saying that is R&R I would like to see your butt out there working as hard as the members do for that long and then come explain how that is R&R (and I don't care about how it was back in the day we are talking about now) Do you seriously think the kids wouldn't rather be at shows competing? I wish we had more shows to be judged at. Especially when 1 gets rained out (Mesa, AZ) and another canceled (El Paso, TX).

4th More important that tour schedule's, scores, what tier they are in or what Corps they belong to, if they are west coast or east coast We all need to be thankful that every member of every corps decided to spend the summer of 2010 working there flippin ### off out there to give us shows to go to. Rather than them all sitting sitting at home. Or there would be no DCI or a forum for people to sit around and complain how others do it, or how much better one corps is than another. Whats most important is what our youth get out of the experience. Can we all at least agree on that?

Just my option for what it's worth as I am just a first year Cascades parent.

Also correct me if I am wrong 2002 Cascades were still open class and had not made it to WC when they made it to Championships.

[Newseditor44]

IMO, the touring models both PC and Academy have I think are fantastic. I went to my first open/senior show this year and had more fun then I did watching BD and Vanguard. And the show was packed. Good stuff guys... success isn't tied to doing a full tour schedule.

[audiodb]

Also correct me if I am wrong 2002 Cascades were still open class and had not made it to WC when they made it to Championships.

Correction....Cascades were division I in 2002, all season long.

[audiodb]

Almost missed all the fun here....

i guess my point is that why doesn't everyone just take weeks off in between shows and see how good things are at the end?

Because it puts you at a competitive disadvantage. The more field experience you have, and the more exposure to judges you get, the better off you are competitively.

it seems idiotic to label a corps as "world class" because they only have financials figured out... According to the definition of "world class" you have to achieve a balance in both.

Looking at their competitive ranking and their tour mileage, I'd say Academy has that balance.

I would feel very bad about getting topped by academy night after night now knowing that they were at home rehearsing all day. Weather has nothing to do with it, they had another all days to prepare while other corps were getting beat up by the demands on a fully touring organization, injury, sickness, and all the other stuff that happens on tour.

Besides just the obvious (injuries and illness can happen in your home state too)....no one is forcing the other corps to tour longer than Academy. More on that later....

this "club med" drum corps vibe has to go

Anyone remember when people used to complain about Pacific Crest having a shorter touring model? It was basically this exact same thing.

Notice how that talk died when PC fell out of Semis a few years back?

Exactly. No one has a problem with limited tour until the corps ranks in the top 17....then, all of a sudden, even a DCI-defined full tour isn't enough.

My "club med" comment is referring to taking time away from the tour responsibilities, like performing almost every night, traveling, rehearsing a short day, you know... the rigors of an actual tour.

But DCI defines the "tour responsibilities"....and per their definition, world-class corps are expected to tour continuously from San Antonio on. Academy met that definition starting in 2008, and thus is now in their third year of "full-touring" status. No one is required to tour for eight weeks continuously.

If it's a money issue to these organizations then maybe you should be in a different division until you are ready to tour full time.

Frankly, if a part-time corps can compete at the world-class level, I'd rather they have that option....not that it's going to happen very often. Pacific Crest did it for several years (then became a full-tour corps); Academy did it in '07 (then became a full-tour corps); Jersey Surf is doing it now. And the world didn't come to an end.

[jwscv87]

The rest of your argument has no merit. The season in the west ended last Sunday. What's left for the east, south and mid-west? Oh yeah, 30 shows plus finals week.

So yeah, I'm sick of this argument!

Ditto!!!!

The quoted point above is crucial to me. It is fairly amazing that drum corps still thrives in the west. The DCI touring schedule is doing its best to kill drum corps out here. I am glad to see the Cascades (notice Seattle is no longer part of the name), Crusaders, and Thunder still doing ok, but I worry for all of them. It is very, very difficult. They get three to four shows max in this region (counting Boise). Seattle doesn't even get a show and we did not get SCV or BD in the Northwest this year. Our "region" now has to be then entire west coast to get a reasonable first tour. It is very hard to be a fan in this part of the country. The financial commitment is big.

Arguing that all of these corps should leave California early and go on a national tour is a really bad idea IMO.

[GMichael1230]

Ditto!!!!

The quoted point above is crucial to me. It is fairly amazing that drum corps still thrives in the west. The DCI touring schedule is doing its best to kill drum corps out here. I am glad to see the Cascades (notice Seattle is no longer part of the name), Crusaders, and Thunder still doing ok, but I worry for all of them. It is very, very difficult. They get three to four shows max in this region (counting Boise). Seattle doesn't even get a show and we did not get SCV or BD in the Northwest this year. Our "region" now has to be then entire west coast to get a reasonable first tour. It is very hard to be a fan in this part of the country. The financial commitment is big.

Arguing that all of these corps should leave California early and go on a national tour is a really bad idea IMO.

Just a thought I had off the top of my head and not sure if its for this thread, or what.....BUt imagine if corps didnt change uniforms every year, get new equipment every year, top of the line busses, RV's new flags, etc,etc,,,,,I bet more money could go into travel expenses and there could be more shows in all regions......

There are legitimate ways to keep costs down and have enough cash to represent all parts of the country, maybe ?

G

[skevinp]

Just a thought I had off the top of my head and not sure if its for this thread, or what.....BUt imagine if corps didnt change uniforms every year, get new equipment every year, top of the line busses, RV's new flags, etc,etc,,,,,I bet more money could go into travel expenses and there could be more shows in all regions......

There are legitimate ways to keep costs down and have enough cash to represent all parts of the country, maybe ?

G

If you are suggesting the smaller/newer WC corps that can't afford to do full tours are independently choosing to empahasize these things without good reason, I am not so sure about that, as I suspect they are not the biggest "offenders" in that regard. I don't have any evidence to suggest that corps like Academy are spending money irresponsibly, and I suspect DCI watches their budgets to some extent.

If your are saying that the culture of the activity places too much emphasis on new and expensive things, then that seems a fair point. Especially if such things end up being required to be competitive. But I think at some point you might lose fans and therefore revenue if the corps are all out there with shabby uniforms and tattered flags.

[skevinp]

...BUt imagine if corps didnt change uniforms every year, get new equipment every year, top of the line busses...

I wonder if older buses don't get worse gas mileage and require more maintenance though, which would make them much more expensive. I really don't know, just throwing that out there.

[BRASSO]

Via Academy's twitter feed:

Paramount CA Scores!

Cascades 72.7

Mandarins 74.7

Pacific Crest 75.9

Academy 80.1

Breakin' 80 - not a full panel but they're still putting up the number in captions that will still be around next week when they hook up with the rest of the tour. The 12th place corps is usually right around 86, and scores get a little crowded from the Texas shows until Allentown. So there's no reason they should be considered out of the hunt. With MN rained out and the SA change this year, most of the corps won't be at the same show until Atlanta in 2 weeks. A lot of placements aren't going to be obvious at all this year with only 2 shows of every corps performing to the same panel in the same day.

This is a good illustration of why comparing scores from one competition to another is essentially meaningless. (although fun to do). The Academy scored over an 80 on July 18th..Tonite, July 26th, 8 days later, they score a 77. Did they get WORSE in 8 days of shows, and practice ? No. They probably got better, maybe even much better. But it's not incompatible at all that their score could go down. Why ? That's because when we look at the Corps where Academy scored an 80, ( above they are listed ) they were the best Corps in that mix. Tonite however, when they scored a 77, they were competing with more Corps, and also Corps from top to bottom with greater overall performance talent. So, what can we learn ? We can learn that comparing Corps head to head is meaningful. Comparing scores from around the country is fun, but it doesn't really tell us much.

Edited July 27, 2010 by BRASSO

[BRASSO]

nm

Edited July 27, 2010 by BRASSO