State of drum corps manifesto

[Tez]

Honesty time. I don't care for 70's drum corps. I'm impressed by what it is but it isn't my cup of tea. I love the music from most of 80's drum corps, but there is nothing happening there I need to be able to see. Drum corps started getting visually interesting in the 90's, and visually exploded in the last 10 years, but the MUSIC, has gone backwards in "enjoyability". There are musical things happening today that create cool moments, but they are fleeting and impact oriented, or designed to enhance a visual priority. If they could marry the music from 80's drum corps with today's visual programs, hell to the yes.

2010 Madison Scouts

[Jeff Ream]

Honesty time. I don't care for 70's drum corps. I'm impressed by what it is but it isn't my cup of tea. I love the music from most of 80's drum corps, but there is nothing happening there I need to be able to see. Drum corps started getting visually interesting in the 90's, and visually exploded in the last 10 years, but the MUSIC, has gone backwards in "enjoyability". There are musical things happening today that create cool moments, but they are fleeting and impact oriented, or designed to enhance a visual priority. If they could marry the music from 80's drum corps with today's visual programs, hell to the yes.

[Jeff Ream]

From my memory it was only BD and Cadets who went Multi-key in the first year.

If I am right (and please correct me if I'm wrong), then your memory helps to prove my point. You claim BD and Cavies were not as loud, but Cavies were still on G's. If there really was an enormous difference than wouldn't it have been apparent which corps were using the new horns?

you are right, I am thinking 01 for Cavies where it wasn't as loud, not 2000. SCV...I think they did go, but the hit in Adagio showed Bb could be loud.

I'm a percussionist, but I understand loud brass well. I think the big key is in how it is arranged...I really think that's how one can tell.

Phantom 03 was on Bb but loud as hell...and Phantom 08? yes. Crown the last few years? yes.

in general tho, most Bb lines are not as loud, IMO, and in some cases the upper brass comes across as really tinny sounding.

[snowrider]

Honesty time. I don't care for 70's drum corps. I'm impressed by what it is but it isn't my cup of tea. I love the music from most of 80's drum corps, but there is nothing happening there I need to be able to see. Drum corps started getting visually interesting in the 90's, and visually exploded in the last 10 years, but the MUSIC, has gone backwards in "enjoyability". There are musical things happening today that create cool moments, but they are fleeting and impact oriented, or designed to enhance a visual priority. If they could marry the music from 80's drum corps with today's visual programs, hell to the yes.

NAIL ON THE HEAD!!!!!

If you took Blue Devils show this year, changed to the conical bore G bugles instead of cylindrical bore B-flat instruments and minor point - rewrote 85% of the music - they would be everyone by 5 points. The drill has advanced but the music has been lost for the most part. Just watch some shows over a 30 year period - yes visaully the '70s show almost boring. You take MOST of the shpows the last few years and the visually cool things are happenning BUT music wise they are trying to "fix" it with electronics and amplification when it really isn;t needed. Just write some good music. Play maybe 32 bars of song in row and watch the crowd go wild!

[jjeffeory]

Here is one thing I have never "gotten" about the G vs. Bb debate...... Why do we always compare Bb hornlines now (2008, 09, 10) with G hornlines of the 80s and prior? So much time is in between these events, I don't see how one could accurately compare or even remember. It is like we forget that all hornlines were G up through 1999 and many still were into the 2000s. What about comparing those years? Were the Cadets and Blue Devils significantly quieter in 2000 than the other corps?..... I didn't see them live, but I remember some people saying that the first hit in the Cadets show was one of the most powerful they had witnessed. If this is the case, and they were directly comparing them to the G lines of Cavaliers, SCV, Phantom etc.... then there is no way that G vs. Bb makes that big of a difference in volume.

Sometimes I really think that the volume debate is nothing more than seeing the past through rose-colored glasses. I could see there being a 3-4% difference, but some of you act like the G's were like twice as loud. I simply cannot believe that is really the case.

What I noticed was a definite difference in the sounds produced. The G lines had edgier sounds with different overtones than the Bb. The Bb were mello, the Gs were "dark"....

Just a different sound.

[ducttapedgerbil]

Here is one thing I have never "gotten" about the G vs. Bb debate...... Why do we always compare Bb hornlines now (2008, 09, 10) with G hornlines of the 80s and prior? So much time is in between these events, I don't see how one could accurately compare or even remember. It is like we forget that all hornlines were G up through 1999 and many still were into the 2000s. What about comparing those years? Were the Cadets and Blue Devils significantly quieter in 2000 than the other corps?..... I didn't see them live, but I remember some people saying that the first hit in the Cadets show was one of the most powerful they had witnessed. If this is the case, and they were directly comparing them to the G lines of Cavaliers, SCV, Phantom etc.... then there is no way that G vs. Bb makes that big of a difference in volume.

Sometimes I really think that the volume debate is nothing more than seeing the past through rose-colored glasses. I could see there being a 3-4% difference, but some of you act like the G's were like twice as loud. I simply cannot believe that is really the case.

There is also a big difference in back pressure between the 2-valve and 3-valve G horns so I would guess there woudl be some differences there. Note that it is probably that a lot of arrangements were arranged a few steps lower with the transition to 3-valve since it opened up more of the register. I noticed some late 90's arrangements for the mellophones had a lot down near the bottom of the staff and a bit under the staff. With the 2 valve horns we rarely got below mid-staff. Could it be that "higher is louder"?????

[Tez]

NAIL ON THE HEAD!!!!!

If you took Blue Devils show this year, changed to the conical bore G bugles instead of cylindrical bore B-flat instruments and minor point - rewrote 85% of the music - they would be everyone by 5 points. The drill has advanced but the music has been lost for the most part. Just watch some shows over a 30 year period - yes visaully the '70s show almost boring. You take MOST of the shpows the last few years and the visually cool things are happenning BUT music wise they are trying to "fix" it with electronics and amplification when it really isn;t needed. Just write some good music. Play maybe 32 bars of song in row and watch the crowd go wild!

Have you listened to the source music for 2010 Blue Devils?

[Tez]

What I noticed was a definite difference in the sounds produced. The G lines had edgier sounds with different overtones than the Bb. The Bb were mello, the Gs were "dark"....

Just a different sound.

So yes, there was a difference in sound.... I can even tell from the recordings.... but still no one is saying there was a major difference in volume.

[snowrider]

Plus, obtaining new customers is expensive. Really expensive. Some businesses have to spend up to a year's worth of revenue, in marketing and advertising costs, to get a new customer to commit. If that customer is only with you for say, 4 years, then you've blown 25% of your revenue on marketing and advertising costs. Unless you have a business with very, very high gross margins, you are not going to stay in business for long - certainly not in this economy.

(There's a company called Vonage, that pionered the voice-over-internet telephony business, often referred to as VOIP. It had a great product, but its business could never get off the ground. Why? It had extraordinarily high costs, for customer acquisition and retention. They had to pay through the nose, for marketing and advertising. Cable companies, by contrast, have a captive audience, and don't have to pay, to advertise to customers. They grabbed the lion share of the VOIP market, which Vonage created.)

This is essentially the economic model that the drum corps activity is facing right now:

1) Costs of acquiring customers. DCI has precious little marketing dollars; much of its marketing is really done by word of mouth. (I only found out about the Pittsburgh show last Monday, by reading an article in the local newspaper.)

2) Margins are continually being squeezed, by costs that DCI can't control, such as food, fuel, and housing.

3) Revenue is being hampered because of the inability to retain customers.

So what's the solution? If you're in a bind like this, facing multiple threats to your business, you should work on the problem that you can fix - the one that you can control. The problem, in this case, is #3 - customer retention. Put a more exciting, dynamic show on the field. That will help you retain customers, who will eventually become loyal, over time. That will give you the revenue streams, to cope with #2 (margin squeeze), and eventually work on #1 (customer acquisition cost.)

Darn, with ideas like these, I should become a business consultant! Hold it, I just looked at my business card - that is what it says...............

The "old" DCI customers also have much more disposable income and can afford to buy tickets, travel, buy DVDs (not download from YT) and merchandise. But, if you make the product something they do not want to hear and see they will not be back.

I am in Indy and took 2 hard core fans from the past to the show last night hoping they and others would want to come with me to finals or semi's. Well it is a no go! They sort of enjoyed parts of the Carmel show but they will not go to see anymore drum corp. This is from a couple of fans that followed Phantom Regiment around show after show in the '80s and bought a lot of souvies and DCI audio and video products in the past.

[snowrider]

So yes, there was a difference in sound.... I can even tell from the recordings.... but still no one is saying there was a major difference in volume.

Yes:

Conical bore instruments (bugles / fluegelhorns etc) have more overtones than cyclindrical bore instruments - not my opinion - fact. They sound different and in my opinion better.