pearlsnaredrummer77 Posted July 15, 2010 Share Posted July 15, 2010 I took a meter to a couple of shows during the G-Bb transition and yes, the G hornlines were louder. I don't remember the exact level, I wish I could so then I could do the test again and see if they have gotten even wimpier since (I would guess they have). Back in the 2-valve days you could feel the hornlines on your face....that's loud. Nowadays, in long segments, they are being drowned out by amps and may as well not even be there....so sad...really does make me want to cry. It's not only the volume of G horns. The Glines had other sonic elements that the bflat lines seem to lack. In sum, they had a distinctive sound that said "DRUM CORPS." I miss that... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mello Dude Posted July 15, 2010 Share Posted July 15, 2010 It's not only the volume of G horns. The Glines had other sonic elements that the bflat lines seem to lack. In sum, they had a distinctive sound that said "DRUM CORPS." I miss that... Precisely. I don't think anyone would say that corps today are not loud. I wouldn't, I just can remember standing in front of a line and be brought to tears by the sheer volume..one notably, being BD in 1999 or so doing a warmup on Anakin's Theme...holy cow. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
atlvalet Posted July 15, 2010 Share Posted July 15, 2010 Did I mention I like waffles a lot? But George Hopkins turned your waffle into a pancake, and now you can't enjoy it like you used to. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
atlvalet Posted July 15, 2010 Share Posted July 15, 2010 (edited) And last, but not least, and here is the one to get someone riled. Drum line. Line it up on the sideline on the '50' and 'throw it down'. This is drum corps! I know the response, "It's now the flow of the music transitioning from one segment to another via percussion". I don't care about the flow. I want to see the guys flail. Get the pit out of the way for a minute and let them display their skills. Of course, the members are not responsible for the product. I was talking to a tenor friend of mine the other day. I was like "What happened to DCI lines throwing down grooves? They don't do that anymore." His response was "Yeah dude, I know." Not the most erudite conversation, but just watch Crossmen '90, '91, and '92. Every once in awhile I get that feeling from a drumline (Dev's this year but not last). Stella doesn't need her groove back, DCI lines do. And I was underimpressed with the Cadets solo this year from what I saw online. Seemed kinda boring to me. I remember things like SCV '91 and '97. Bluecoats tenor line in '97. Crossmen '90 to '92. Cadet's '89, '93, '94, '00. Devils '90 and '94. Phantom in '93 and '95. Star '93. There are many more I am missing. Devils this year seems to have that "ridiculous" factor to me. I haven't seen it from anyone else (this year). But hey, that's just my opinion. Edited July 15, 2010 by atlvalet Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jeff Ream Posted July 15, 2010 Share Posted July 15, 2010 I was talking to a tenor friend of mine the other day. I was like "What happened to DCI lines throwing down grooves? They don't do that anymore."His response was "Yeah dude, I know." Not the most erudite conversation, but just watch Crossmen '90, '91, and '92. Every once in awhile I get that feeling from a drumline (Dev's this year but not last). Stella doesn't need her groove back, DCI lines do. And I was underimpressed with the Cadets solo this year from what I saw online. Seemed kinda boring to me. I remember things like SCV '91 and '97. Bluecoats tenor line in '97. Crossmen '90 to '92. Cadet's '89, '93, '94, '00. Devils '90 and '94. Phantom in '93 and '95. Star '93. There are many more I am missing. Devils this year seems to have that "ridiculous" factor to me. I haven't seen it from anyone else (this year). But hey, that's just my opinion. that is the one part of BD i do like, and I think the switch to Pearl really helped.I was talking to a friend yesterday who marched in one of the lines you mentioned, and he said he saw some stuff on youtube from this summer, and he wondered what happened to drumlines playing some meat on the field. my response" the visual kills the opportunity". Tough to play something like 92 Crossmen when you have to run at 200 BPM for half or more of the show Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SCV Biker Posted July 15, 2010 Share Posted July 15, 2010 I think a bigger contributor to the change in volume than the change in the horn is the change in approach to playing the horn. Could someone please elaborate on this for a person who has his Masters in something other than music? I've been playing brass for nearly 40 years, and I still hear the same TQ&I issues now (e.g., SCV this year at the Walnut CA show) that pre-Bb hornlines had in the past. Were those of us on G's blowing into the wrong end, or...? dbc03, did you march with any of the three DCs in your sig, or somewhere else...? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DarrenE Posted July 15, 2010 Share Posted July 15, 2010 What I am taking from this thread is that the people defending the current state of affairs have no idea what they are missing. They've never heard what we are talking about. I can't speak for others but I don't want to go back to the static drill and the flags in an arc in the back of the field. We can add all the modern drill and dance but don't take away the big brass sound. I could even deal with the amplification if I could get the horn sound back. Another point, there was a bit of disbelief earlier that a single instrument could be 3 to 5 db louder. I could believe it when a current brass section of 80 players can't keep up with what a line of 60 to 65 could do in the past. Don't forget that even if it isn't that much per instrument you need to multiply it across a whole brass line to come up with a final number. Where I've seen the most obvious difference is in the smaller corps. The groups with with 40 horns used to be able to pump out some serious sound. Way more than what you would hear from a marching band of two or three times the size. The talent level of the smaller groups is much better now than it used to be but they really don't stand out as much different in sound from a regular marching band. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dbc03 Posted July 15, 2010 Share Posted July 15, 2010 Could someone please elaborate on this for a person who has his Masters in something other than music? I've been playing brass for nearly 40 years, and I still hear the same TQ&I issues now (e.g., SCV this year at the Walnut CA show) that pre-Bb hornlines had in the past. Were those of us on G's blowing into the wrong end, or...? dbc03, did you march with any of the three DCs in your sig, or somewhere else...? I simply mean that volume has largely taken a back seat to balance and blend. As for where I marched, I don't make it a big secret but I am curious as to why you ask as I don't see where it is relevant to this conversation Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
supersop Posted July 15, 2010 Share Posted July 15, 2010 I agree that approach to the instrument is the problem. I also agree that G horns are louder than Bb ... but I can tell you from experience that when I came home from corps and got back on my Bb Trumpet ... I usually buried the entire ensemble because my dynamic range was way more extreme than anyone else at high school or college. I had to refine my dynamics to match the ensemble (which always ticked me off). If the entire ensemble took my approach .. the sound would still rip skin off peoples faces. The problem is the kids today are being taught to play at concert band dynamic levels. There are a few corps out there that are exploring the power edge .... but 2 or 3 corps does not = all of DCI. That's the big difference from my day. Playing refined is all fine and good. But, learn where that point is that the braces on your horn are ready to crack and learn how to control it. Get the entire ensemble at that level and the power will return. It would still be louder on G horns with this approach over Bb ........ but the simple truth is ... the kids are being taught to play the way they are. Blame the instructors!!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hrothgar15 Posted July 15, 2010 Share Posted July 15, 2010 If the entire ensemble took my approach .. the sound would still rip skin off peoples faces. The problem is the kids today are being taught to play at concert band dynamic levels. There are a few corps out there that are exploring the power edge .... but 2 or 3 corps does not = all of DCI. That's the big difference from my day. Which corps would you say are exploring that edge in recent years? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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