BD vs Cadets in visual

[Newseditor44]

Perhaps I'm missing something, but can someone explain to me how BD is beating Cadets in Visual by over a point? I can see the color guard pushing the spread a bit, but from a marching standpoint, Cadets have BD beat (IMO of course). BD's show doesn't have nearly the demand Cadets show does. What exactly are the judges looking for? Does marching even count anymore or should we need even try?

[SFZFAN]

Simple. BD is better - in every catagory.

[Lance]

no newseditor, nobody would ever be able to explain it to you.

[Newseditor44]

Simple. BD is better - in every catagory.

I will agree they are better in most categories, but I just don't see them beating BD in marching.

Lance, be nice to us old folks, ok.

[Lawlz]

Perhaps I'm missing something, but can someone explain to me how BD is beating Cadets in Visual by over a point? I can see the color guard pushing the spread a bit, but from a marching standpoint, Cadets have BD beat (IMO of course). BD's show doesn't have nearly the demand Cadets show does. What exactly are the judges looking for? Does marching even count anymore or should we need even try?

I saw BD and The Cadets on Thursday and Dallas and had the same opinion. It doesn't seem like BD have quite as demanding as a song visually as the Cadets do. But obviously the judges believe that the Blue Devils made their show much cleaner.

[Tez]

Visual is split up into 3 judges.... let's look at each separately:

Performance - BD simply marches better than Cadets. When they do march their style is more uniform and better defined from person to person. Their individual body visuals are executed at a very high level. Also, I'm not sure that you can prove that each individual's visual demand is tougher in Cadet's show than BD's. While Cadets do have an enormous amount of quick moving drill while playing.... BD does as well. Just watch any individual performer during their show and you will see how much and how fast they move.

Ensemble - As you said yourself, BD's colorguard is out-performing Cadet's guard, and they probably account for a decent portion of this caption. Also the moving of the mirrors and general visual coordination are judged here and BD is getting a lot of credit for those. As for normal things like form control, intervals, etc.... no one has these things down better than BD.

Colorguard - I'm no expert on guard, but nearly everyone else agrees that BD's guard is second to none this (and last) year.

Edited July 24, 2010 by Tez

[Newseditor44]

Visual is split up into 3 judges.... let's look at each separately:

Performance - BD simply marches better than Cadets. When they do march their style is more uniform and better defined from person to person. Their individual body visuals are executed at a very high level. Also, I'm not sure that you can prove that each individual's visual demand is tougher in Cadet's show than BD's. While Cadets do have an enormous amount of quick moving drill while playing.... BD does as well. Just watch any individual performer during their show and you will see how much and how fast they move.

Ensemble - As you said yourself, BD's colorguard is out-performing Cadet's guard, and they probably account for a decent portion of this caption. Also the moving of the mirrors and general visual coordination are judged here and BD is getting a lot of credit for those. As for normal things like form control, intervals, etc.... no one has these things down better than BD.

Colorguard - I'm no expert on guard, but nearly everyone else agrees that BD's guard is second to none this (and last) year.

I agree with the color guard observations, I guess I'm just a little confused as to what the judges are really looking for as far as visual. Like I said before, I guess marching, locking forms, intervals, and so forth really don't mean much anymore. Strictly looking at things from the high camera, I'd have the Cadets over BD by a few tenths.

Edited July 24, 2010 by Newseditor44

[Galen]

[quote name='Newseditor44' date='Jul 24 2010, 01:43 AM' post= What exactly are the judges looking for? Does marching even count anymore or should we need even try?

Apparently not, if a corps cand stand still for extended periods of time and break ranks and just scramble from one set to another at least a half dozen times in their show.

[ContraFart]

Visual is split up into 3 judges.... let's look at each separately:

Also, I'm not sure that you can prove that each individual's visual demand is tougher in Cadet's show than BD's. While Cadets do have an enormous amount of quick moving drill while playing.... BD does as well. Just watch any individual performer during their show and you will see how much and how fast they move.

I can agree with you that BD has better individual technique and foot timing.....but lets take an entire section......compare the contra sections of the 2 corps and then tell me which corps has more demand. (at least for that one section) BD does move at times, but this years drill in particular, there is not much form integrity, mainly because they are trying to achieve effect by not having the form integrity. I think its much easier to clean drill when it is hard to define where the drill is supposed to be. I think the most difficult drill is put into 1 or 2 sections, and the rest is sort of filler.....BD stages very well, but they seem to reset the form quite a bit by having the kids run to their new spot. To me it seems lazy of the drill writer when you do it as much as BD.

When you watch BD and Cadets one after the other this year, BD seems like a HUGE production, and Cadets seem very minimalistic. In the beginning of the show while the guard wears the full corps uniform, the corps seems small. I think Cadets guard is technically good, but they do not pop as well as BDs. The color contrast is sort of bland when you compare it to the shine and production value of BD. However the drill demand is much higher than BDs for a few reasons. First the Cadets move much more consistently then BD. I think if you took a stopwatch to how much the BD hornline stands still compared to Cadets, I would estimate that the Cadets move for a full minute to minute thirty more than BD. (although it is not as easy to measure this as it was last year) Also the Cadets drill is more progressive in the fact that one form moves to the next, all while excellent staging and accommodations for the herald trumpets, soloists etc to blend in and out of the drill are taken into effect. Also the cadets drill does not segregate sections as much as BD (or cavies and Bluecoats I would add as well). The hornline form seems to move in tandem regardless of instrumentation. I am not saying that doing that makes drill more or less difficult (except when referring to BDs contra section), However I personally think it is more interesting and shows more innovation on the part of the drill writer.

All in all I would say BDs difficulty is 6/10 but they are performing it at a level of 11/10. While the Cadets have a difficulty of 9.5/10 and performing it at a level of 7/10. I think the question is now, and has been for a long time......which approach should win a championship?

[MagicBobert]

I think if you took a stopwatch to how much the BD hornline stands still compared to Cadets, I would estimate that the Cadets move for a full minute to minute thirty more than BD.

Geez, will this silly argument ever die? Amount of time spent moving does not correlate to demand. Ever.

Cadets demand is nowhere near that of the Devils this year.

Edited July 24, 2010 by MagicBobert