2nd year for the synth....

[MikeD]

and did happen on the live feeds Thursday and Friday, and will happen inside a dome.

Live feeds? You can't use an audio feed over your computer and use that as a true reading of what it was like at the show.

As for 'will happen'....only if the staffs do not mix the sound properly for the dome.

[Mello Dude]

Hey, as long as we agree about CB! (no, not THAT one! )

Did corps NEED the contra? Or did they think it would improve the overall sound of the corps, so they WANTED the contra?

That's how I see it. Adding to the total sound being produced below the tuba range creates an even fuller overall sound, and I happen to like it. I am in favor of anything that makes the corps sound better.

Then you are for getting rid of the synth right? Sorry, my ears must be better than yours because I have heard the synth DEFINITELY doubling the tuba parts in key and octave. Most noticeable when the tubas were playing a difficult moving part...almost as if they were covering it up trying to make it seem cleaner.

[SFZFAN]

I would appreciate it if more corps would at least hide the keyboard like Boston does.

[SCV Biker]

Then you are for getting rid of the synth right? Sorry, my ears must be better than yours because I have heard the synth DEFINITELY doubling the tuba parts in key and octave. Most noticeable when the tubas were playing a difficult moving part...almost as if they were covering it up trying to make it seem cleaner.

Good observation. Frankly, if the synths are doubling the tuba parts, why not just have those 16-20 tubas put down their horns at the start of the show and do body move-- er, "sculpting" for the next 11 minutes, then pick up their horns again to troop the stands?

** BOOMP BOOMP ** "Hello? Is this thing on?"

[skywhopper]

I am warming up to synth if its similar to the horns and pit equipment.

This is the worst possible use of electronics, in my opinion.

My philosophical objection to synths (and honestly, any amplification) is that you've then moved away from the challenges of live performance. It's hard to balance out your brass and pit? Amplify the pit! It's hard to get the texture you want from an all-brass hornline? Add synths. Want more low-end? Pedal tones not deep enough for you? Add more synths! Can't figure out how to communicate your theme with music and marching? Add an amplified narrator or synth-triggered audio clips!

I won't disagree that synths and amplification and even voice can make shows more fun or interesting in some way, but it totally undercuts the incredibly hard work the members are putting in to make impressive sounds with hunks of metal, wood, and plastic using only their breath and muscles. The audience can no longer trust their ears, basically. A sound that's incredible when produced with no electricity is completely banal when it's produced by pressing a button. Cutting out synths limits the sounds you can make, yes. But what's the point of drum corps if you can just do anything? The *restrictions* are what make it meaningful and special.

You can extend the argument to visuals. If computerized, electrified audio is allowed, why not video? Display technology is incredible these days. The Cavaliers guard's riflework is incredible, but you have to admit, things get dropped, and no one can fly. But if we just stuck some giant movable displays out on the field and showed a recording of a flawless performance, including slo-mo sequences, replays from multiple angles, special effects so it looks like the guard members are flying through space. You could make the displays big enough that the audience could see things much better. The thing is, watching a recording of something great is nothing like seeing something live, even if it's less great. And once you add computer effects to the mix, well who knows if what you're seeing on the screen even happened or if it's even possible?

[perc2100]

Well folks, it seems electronics are here to stay. I saw my one live show of the year on Friday and I can honestly say most corps are using their new toys better than last year. I still wish they weren't allowed but I found myself not finding them as glaringly obnoxious as I did last year. For a minute I even thought BAC wasn't using one until I heard a little effect towards the end. Theirs is cleverly hidden behind percussion instruments at the far right of the pit. Hopefully this will be the trend and corps will continue to find useful ways to utilize them and get away from the obnoxious overuse of BASS and sound effects.

Thoughts?

I've seen zero live shows in person, but several webcasts. I agree with you: I think the balance is much better than last year, and the use is a bit more creative (i.e. not just doubling the contra part or playing piano or something).

[skywhopper]

All of that whining completed, other than audio samples, I do prefer if synths stick to stuff not actually possible with otherwise-allowed instrumentation. The guitar in Crown's show this year, or the piano in Blue Devils last year, those are decent. But I was crushed, *crushed* when I found out that the "Somewhere" pit solo in Crown's show last year that sounded like a glockenspiel or something was actually just played on a synth. I guess it says something about my discernment abilities, but my point is, it *could* have been played on a real instrument. Why wasn't it?

[MikeN]

My philosophical objection to synths (and honestly, any amplification) is that you've then moved away from the challenges of live performance. It's hard to balance out your brass and pit? Amplify the pit! It's hard to get the texture you want from an all-brass hornline? Add synths. Want more low-end? Pedal tones not deep enough for you? Add more synths! Can't figure out how to communicate your theme with music and marching? Add an amplified narrator or synth-triggered audio clips!

I see where you're coming from on this, but turn your thinking around for a moment, and approach this from the angle of a professional, Blast!-type production rather than a HS/College educational band one. Why *should* the performers have to blow their brains out to achieve balance when it can be easily corrected up front? It's hardly like a Broadway show is going to throw away their mixing board because the singers aren't achieving true balance on their own.

If anything, I think that if you're going to use synths to power your "vocal" line, then so far corps haven't gone far enough. Mic all of the brass. Bring bigger speakers. Adjust hornline / drumline / guard numbers to match. It just seems like corps are playing it safe right now, doing it the same way that marching bands have always done it.

Now, with that said, I'd rather not see synths / electronics at all. But if you're going to do it, stop doing it by half-measures. Like I said earlier in the thread, you're adding sound effect bells and whistles on top of 4-part brass harmony, you know? It's a purely superficial change right now.

Mike

[atlvalet]

I see where you're coming from on this, but turn your thinking around for a moment, and approach this from the angle of a professional, Blast!-type production rather than a HS/College educational band one. Why *should* the performers have to blow their brains out to achieve balance when it can be easily corrected up front? It's hardly like a Broadway show is going to throw away their mixing board because the singers aren't achieving true balance on their own.

If anything, I think that if you're going to use synths to power your "vocal" line, then so far corps haven't gone far enough. Mic all of the brass. Bring bigger speakers. Adjust hornline / drumline / guard numbers to match. It just seems like corps are playing it safe right now, doing it the same way that marching bands have always done it.

Now, with that said, I'd rather not see synths / electronics at all. But if you're going to do it, stop doing it by half-measures. Like I said earlier in the thread, you're adding sound effect bells and whistles on top of 4-part brass harmony, you know? It's a purely superficial change right now.

Mike

You know, I remember things being ok way back in the 1990's with 128 marching members and purely acoustical instruments. I never remember anyone saying, "You know what, I wish the hornline didn't have to play so hard. Let's add mic's to every single one."

Oi.

Maybe there was a George Hopkins of the middle ages. "You know what would make this brass quartet better? Let's make it 5, no 6, nay, let's add blacksmiths banging on things in the background too."

If George Hopkins and DCI want to express their creative artistry, maybe they can work on adding Stratocasters to chamber music. Or narration to Gregorian Chants...you know, to explain what they're chanting about. It would be about the same level of improvement.

[Jeff Ream]

Live feeds? You can't use an audio feed over your computer and use that as a true reading of what it was like at the show.

As for 'will happen'....only if the staffs do not mix the sound properly for the dome.

it's being said on reviews too Mike. so I guess they are wrong in your eyes too