Tonight I felt like an old timer!

[Todd Tanji]

I disagree with this broad brush generalization and mischaracterization . It seems to me that most " old school " and " new school " fans liked 2008 Phantom Regiment DCI winning Title show. Additionally, it would not surprise me at all if the " new school " fans of today gave the " old school "1993 Star Reunion Corps a better hand than the DCI " new school " Blue Devils show in Indy.

But we'll see.

People keep referring to 2008 Phantom as an example of how things should be. But the

flaw in that thinking is that a show like Spartacus only comes around once every 10 or so

years. Not even Phantom has been able to duplicate that on a regular basis. It is an outlier.

Someone else referred to Madison this year. Pleasant music, no doubt, but visually not much happening.

Which goes to show my point: you can't please both old school and new school simultaneously.

[Lance]

People keep referring to 2008 Phantom as an example of how things should be. But the

flaw in that thinking is that a show like Spartacus only comes around once every 10 or so

years. Not even Phantom has been able to duplicate that on a regular basis. It is an outlier.

Someone else referred to Madison this year. Pleasant music, no doubt, but visually not much happening.

Which goes to show my point: you can't please both old school and new school simultaneously.

exactly. shows like that are the exception, not the rule.

phantom tried to duplicate it in 09 by having it center around characters...but there was a lot more to 08's massive success than that. it's rare that a corps stumbles upon that magic formula.

[skywhopper]

This phenomenon is nothing new. After you've been following something for decades, new things will almost always seem less and less interesting, and the familiar will become more and more loved. It happens with music, sports, and everything. The old days were always better, more authentic, more passionate, whatever.

If you aren't enjoying the activity, find something new! Life's too short to be upset about something you once liked changing into something you don't. It's certainly too short to post on message boards about the thing you don't like. That's what I really don't get...

[dckid80]

I would agree.

From what I have seen in the last decade Boston '00 and PR '05 did the best job of recalling that "old school" magic.

[BRASSO]

People keep referring to 2008 Phantom as an example of how things should be. But the

flaw in that thinking is that a show like Spartacus only comes around once every 10 or so

years. Not even Phantom has been able to duplicate that on a regular basis. It is an outlier.

Someone else referred to Madison this year. Pleasant music, no doubt, but visually not much happening.

Which goes to show my point: you can't please both old school and new school simultaneously.

Well, its certainly not the fault of the fans that current DCI show designers can't come up with the formula that could work with BOTH the judges and the fans alike more frequently. Old School and New School fans are not as far part as you'd like us to believe. It was accomplished in 2008..... also, Carolina Crown found the right formula with "Triple Crown " a few years ago that bridged the two " schools " too. It did not win, but it was close to winning that year, and had most of both "old school " and " new school " fans liking the offering. There are plenty of other examples as well.

You also ( my opinion ) mischaracterized Madison Scouts where only " new school " recognizes the Madison Scouts Corps for both it's strengths and things they need to work on in the future. ( ie, percussion, visual ). Both " old school " and " new school " can appreciate their Corps this year, imo.

I see no " old school "... " new school " breakdown regarding the current DCI Champion BD either. I 've read numerous posts on here from what appears to be " new school " advocates that do not appear to like BD this year either. "Old School" and" New School" come togther on things they find unfulfilling much more frequently than you give them credit for..... and this year in Indy, I predict your point will be shot down once again entirely when Star United performs in exhibition. You'll see both " old school " and " new school " fans simultaneously digging their performance.

Edited July 31, 2010 by BRASSO

[Brassop]

I can definately relate to you on this. I stopped attending shows 4 years ago for the same reason. I turned and walked from the activity and just recently started checking it out again, only to see that it's actually gotten worse. They aren't even using bugles any more for pete's sake. The transition to "bands" is well on it's way. I believe that's because there are so few Corps for kids to gain the experience that's need to march in a WC Drum Corps, they are having to resort to getting that experience from HS bands. Ultimately, this has caused the surviving Corps to convert to band type brass instruments, with the push to include woodwinds. That day my friend will be a very, VERY sad day for us oldtimers.

A large reason for the push to band instrumentation is also about DCI's reach; If your goal is expanding your influence and income, then why would you continue to restrict instrumentation to "bugles only", or "B flat with bell front only" when you could open the activity to all band instrumentation? Why be the controlling umbrella organization for only 50 corps when you can make the complete conversion to band and control literally thousands of groups? Imagine the income from hundreds and hundreds of bands paying regional competition entrance fees, from mommy and daddy ticket sales, and from wannabe clinics - let alone the palm greasing from band instrument makers and other vendors.

It's no accident that DCI moved to the same town as Bands of America (BOA). Look for a merger down the road. They've been massaging the move to bands for some time: reference the woodwinds inclusion in I&E a few years back, and the "all instrumentation" on-field warm up this year. They're making the change slow and murky, but sure.

You know drum corps as we know it is over when, the perennial powerhouse Blue Devils' hornline seems to spend more time dancing than playing. I'm not sure when I'll make the decision to never again attend a junior drum corps show - though it's been several years already. Perhaps it will be when I overhear another spectator proclaim, "Did you see that awesome flute flash to-the-box?! I may be willing to show up then - but only if they provide barf bags with each ticket.

Edited July 31, 2010 by Brassop

[Todd Tanji]

Well, its certainly not the fault of the fans that current DCI show designers can't come up with the formula that can't work with BOTH the judges and the fans alike more frequently. Old School and New School fans are not as far part as you'd like us to believe. It was accomplished in 2008..... also, Carolina Crown found the right formula with "Triple Crown " a few years ago that bridged the two " schools " too. It did not win, but it was close to winning that year, and had most of both "old school " and " new school " fans liking the offering. There are plenty of other examples as well.

You also ( my opinion ) mischaracterized Madison Scouts where only " new school " recognizes the Madison Scouts Corps for both it's strengths and things they need to work on in the future. ( ie, percussion, visual ). Both " old school " and " new school " can appreciate their Corps this year, imo.

I see no " old school "... " new school " breakdown regarding the current DCI Champion BD either. I 've read numerous posts on here from what appears to be " new school " advocates that do not appear to like BD this year either. "Old School" and" New School" come togther on things they find unfulfilling much more frequently than you give them credit for..... and this year in Indy, I predict your point will be shot down once again entirely when Star United performs in exhibition. You'll see both " old school " and " new school " fans simultaneously digging their performance.

Already made my point about 2008. No need to repeat that. As far as Crown, well, this entire thread is a complaint about the top corps this year,

including them. So apparently they can't appease both sides either.

Again, Madison proves my point. They intentionally designed a show to appeal to old school, hence, re-establishing their brand, which is a very

smart thing to do. It works for their current objective and their current state. But they sacrificed visual complexity to do it.

Where they go from here, who knows? Will they be able to retain their old school appeal and progress upwards? Not without compromise, IMO.

Remember, I'm not the one who created the old school/new school dichotomy. That's what this entire thread is about - the "good old days".

And I have seen Star United 4 years in a row at DCA. Lots of old schoolers complain about them not being entertaining enough. But I love 'em!

[Lance]

.

Again, Madison proves my point. They intentionally designed a show to appeal to old school, hence, re-establishing their brand, which is a very

smart thing to do.

i see a lot of best of the 00s in their show, too, though. drum feature is straight out of 03 BD. tuba feature stuff mimics bd and bloo of late. those are some moments that get the most applause, too.

[The Other Mike]

It's ironic that you would ever type the first paragraph, if you truly experienced what you wrote in the second paragraph. You're so close to the truth of it, though you haven't quite found the mark.

Like I stated , I'm SLOW.

I typed the first line BECAUSE of what I experienced as listed in the 2nd paragraph. Yes, it FINALLY dawned on ME why "I" think we have such a great divide.........just as I experienced with big band jazz of the 70's.

But, as you stated, let's compare apples to apples.

Sparticus was the closest thing to the electrical feeling of "some" old shows yet it took Phantom almost 30 years to educate the fans to understand and enjoy it. THIRTY YEARS ! For me, it had the perfect combination of showmanship of older corps but with the advancement of the modern era.

ALL shows are entertaining either live or on DVD, however, in the old days corps relied on a personality to electrify the crowd ( even moreso than Sparticus did) and I think many of us OLD PHARTS really miss that part of drum corps. The level in which todays programs are performed are almost unbelievable but I think most of the OLD PHARTS miss the personality of the corps in the past. "I" really miss those electrical moments where even haters of certain corps were swooned up on their feet as part of the emotional impact. Am I just ignorant because I can name more "moments" from the 70's/80's 90's than I can recall from this decade ? I'm starting to wonder, yet when I think it's JUST ME, I see posts from others feeling the same thing

An artist dives headfirst into what he is driven to create without regard for creating something that the general public will want to buy. Most artists die poor and usually unappreciated for the masterpieces they create. Can we possibly learn something about this before it goes too far ? Is it JUST an artform or is it an activity that needs the paying customer ?

DCI has done a great job of filling the seats with band kids which in turn may grow the fan base in the future.

If the band kids (who usually are forced to buy tickets by their director) are taken out of the equation, I wonder just how many people ARE the audiance ? I can only speak for shows that I attend but it seems 50% of the crowd.

I think DCI is missing a big money maker. Most shows that I attend have a huge following in the lot. Many people ( that I know) don't even go into the show until the last corps or two because they are so enthralled ( sp ?) with the hype going on in warm ups. It seems that in the lot we are able to get a taste of those electrical moments that I speak of. We get to see more of the corps idenity and personality. It's a show within a show. If DCI could figure out a way to charge $5 for entrance to the "close up " in the lot there could be another 10,000 bucks .

As far as shows ? I'm really ###### that I didn't get to see Madison this year.

[The Other Mike]

Hey Lance and Matt,

I'm saving your seats on the OLD PHART bus for you.

One day this old 1957 greyhound will suddenly appear right in front of you without warning.

It's ok to get on and it's ok to pause and mumble to yourselves wondering what to do.

It REALLY is ok, everyone on the bus has been there and will understand your sudden state of shock.

and those kids along the road throwing rocks at the bus ? They're ok too, the bus just hasn't stopped for them yet.

HONK HONK