Tonight I felt like an old timer!

[chaos001]

I don't know, I haven't experienced any 'ovations' in the last ten years in any audience I've been part of that equal the ones I experienced on the field IN THE MIDDLE OF THE OPENING TUNE! And we hadn't even gotten to the drum solo yet where people really went nuts for us.

I think if you haven't been part of the scene in 75 in Philadelphia, or 72 in Whitewater, or 71 at the U.S. Open, 84 in Atlanta, or 76 in Clawson, Michigan you have no comparitor, so the polite stand up and clap I see today (08 Phantom @ finals excepted) may seem like it's the bomb, but it really isn't.

I want an SCV 04 and 09 every year and every step off from every corps, not just from one corps every five years (I didn't see Phantom 08, it looks on dvd like I missed a really good one). I go to a show and want to lose a lung screaming and hurt my hand clapping, there's just isn't anything being offered to do that. Sure the technical stuff is mind blowing, but the lack of emotion grabbing 'design' all these 'designers' can't write is stunning.

I miss being yanked out of my seat by something that isn't 220 pounds and ugly. That said, I am in awe of what the corps are doing, for the most part. I do listen to the music in the off-season, I'm interested - but I also like going to classical music concerts too. That's where I want to sit and contemplate and wait until the end to applaud politely, not in a football stadium.

You say you hear the arguments, but are you listening to the core of what people are saying. It's isnt' the rule changes, or technical changes people really are disappointed with. Those are just symptoms people blame and those with the power to change pursue to recapture something lost. What is lost is a reason to throw babies. That can be done with any instrument in any venue when you think about it. It can happen with saxaphones, rattles and zithers.

Some of us miss being truly moved, that's all. And lets not forget the moving epxperience includes those around you and when they aren't moved either, there is no infection - get it.

Regards,

John

absolutely. every last word.

Corps designers are not interested in entertaining the audience - they are interested in impressing the judges and the top echelon of drum corps designers.

I do see tho, all G7 stuff aside, people listening in the corps. I do see potential this year in terms of fan friendlier design that doesnt require a doctorate level reading course to get.

if they're impressing the judges, we need new judges. if they're only impressing the judges, we need new judges.

if the designers/judges/fans think the shows put out in the last few years that have won are doctorate level works, then they've never read doctorate level work. the shows/arrangement/designs haven't been, aren't, and shouldn't be in the future at that level.

and if you've ever read doctorate level work, it's boring as ####.

Probably not the answer you are wanting to hear - but even a spectator has to "grow" with the art form which this truly is. We would hear these same arguments in modern classical music, dance, art - whether at an art gallery or on a stage. It is part of pushing the envelope forward and trying new things on. There will be trends and fads - but when looking back there will be monumental steps taken. SO in that regard, you just have to allow yourself to be part of that process too rather than just a fan sitting in the stands expecting what you are already comfortable with.

That is where I see much criticism of the judges here. But both they and the current "fans" are digging in there and appreciating some fabulous new skill being tried with a sabre and handcuffs, or the movement that a battery can now do with a snare brace on their body, or how a horn line can continue to play while incorporating bizarre movement. Perhaps it is just an overwhelming sense of too much to watch or take in because it is out of our comfort zone? I know I am trying to strap myself around that with Blue Devils show this season: On first grasp you wonder what is the whole point? - but with patience and some scrutinizing you start to see the boundless possibilities that are presented to us and appreciate them for what they are. Open doors rather than close them.

i'm all for growth in an art medium, but for Buddha's sake, let it be interesting.

What we are not seeing in DCI is some form of perfect match between the music and the visual. Sure, in each year from 2000 - 2010 we have seen some excellent shows that managed to marry the music and visual in a stunning and entertaining way; but the majority of shows I have seen in the past 10 years have either implemented one or the other well, but their total show was lacking, certainly in ENTERTAINMENT value, largely because that connection was lost. All it takes is for one or two weak or uncoordinated elements in a show and the entertainment value is sorely lacking.

It's not just BD that has a chopped up musical book. Most of the corps do, and it is MUSIC, more so than visual, that will really drive the emotional and energetic response from a crowd. It really starts and ends with the music, and this is, to this day, where I see the greatest problems. Musical construction is hurting the entertainment value of DCI.

This, music is what drives the emotion in a show. Back in the earlier days a fantastic hornline could win you the championship almost by itself, but now visual is such an important part of the score, almost disproportionately so, that corps that want to win have to design the music to fit the visual, instead of the other way around. Its what it takes to win, but unfortunately great visuals will never garner a standing ovation like an intense musical moment. For example, if the mid-show standing ovation for cavvies happened in the same spot it did in San Antonio, it was a pure musical moment that brought out that emotional, visceral response from the crowd. (Same thing with bloo 08 boxer shout, phantom 08, scv 09).

Music has that power, especially to a "musically educated" crowd like at a drum corps show. There is something about it that can't be put in words. Think about any intense emotional moment you've ever had, I bet you most of the time music was there in some form. I think its less the electronics or micing, and more this focus on the visual side rather than the music side.

In short, we see visuals, but feel music.

until the music is better, more appealing, and elicits strong emotion, DCI will become an eviscerated, castrated version of its former self.

Edited July 31, 2010 by chaos001

[nick6063]

Stop calling todays drum corps BANDS!! BANDS PLAY RECOGNIZABLE MUSIC !!!

[oldskl3rings]

I watched a video of SCV warming up on Facebook. They mixed a little chorale singing with their chord progressions. When they hit the peak of their crescendo it brought tears to my eyes. NOTHING can equal the wall of sound from a quality all brass horn line! I also watched a clip of their show and nothing. Yes the music was difficult, yes the drill was fast and the members were moving and playing their hearts out and I felt nothing except an appreciation for what they were trying to do. DC lost its mojo decades ago. The activity used to have a unique, sound – place in the performing arts. That sound has been diluted and destroyed with the addition of more gimmicky crap. All in the name of growing the art form. What BS. So sad!

[Todd Tanji]

You can't make both old school and new school happy at the same time.

There is too little overlap, if any at all.

Edited July 31, 2010 by BDUFLS

[skewerz]

You can't make both old school and new school happy at the same time.

There is too little overlap, if any at all.

I completely disagree with this...this year's Madison presentation proves that.

It's not hard to figure out which corps are doing the best at trying to play to the audience and old timers...just look at what corps the old timers like this year...Cadets, Madison, Crown...

You can play interesting, fan "friendly" music and still march your butts off. Just because the musical pieces aren't as heavily chopped up doesn't mean you can't put on a whale of a visual feast as well.

Why was Phantom '08 so popular? Fan accesible music combined with great EMOTION.

Yes, it can be done. It's just harder to design a show that way. Why do it the hard way, when you can just do it the easy way and cater to the judges?

[sarnia sam]

You can't make both old school and new school happy at the same time.

There is too little overlap, if any at all.

I don't know, I think you can. Good anything is good and most of the kinds of mixed audiences at the shows (non drum corps) I go to respond accordingly to good and go nuts with great.

Heck, I go to see run of the mill country bands live because they usually have the best musicians and singers and they perform (as opposed to most rock bands where there are multiple issues in performance) and I can enjoy it. you'd have to tie me down to listen to country in my home.

Right at the moment the visual is really good, the audio is wanting (not how, but what). It isn't rocket science to get both aspects firing together, at least one would think, especially since it's been done before.

When Bluecoats did The Boxer, the stadium I was in went electric, but that was it for the entire evening to that moment (and after) and it only lasted for less than a minute. That was it for the night. The rest of the time there were pockets of genuine applause, oohs and aws, and of course a good hand at the conclusion of each corps show, but not the whole crowd spontaneously responding. Why? because that moment of The Boxer was genuinely great.

In 75 (I'm just picking a year) Madison had about a dozen of those moments in a 13 minute time period. That's only one corps, Devs, SCV, Oaklands, 27th, etc., were the same.

Visual just is not enough for most people. The music arrangers have to stop writing to the sheets (or the sheets need to change) and write music (yes, there are some good gestures toward that happening). If these folks were shooting for top 40 they'd fail miserably, which is why you have so many drum corps fans tuning out, switching channels, or dis-satistfied.

Regards,

John

Edited July 31, 2010 by sarnia sam

[GMichael1230]

Better than wasting time going to a board saying how much you hate something the board is devoted to.

But Lance, they are a legitimate part of this community. They contributed to the history of this activity and their opinion is important. Good or bad, right or wrong, their feelings, and thoughts are vaild and they have the right to post them here and should expect a decent amount of respect and maturity..what the wrote wasnt trolling, bait, flaming.they shared their thoughts.

G

[GMichael1230]

Like coming to a board and saying hideous things about what the board is devoted to.

So respectful.

What was so "hideous" ?? They received 8+ follow up pages of general agreement, by some pretty impressive poeple.

G

[The Other Mike]

i understand your frustration, and it's good advice to freelancer, and all.

but your last paragraph....you actually believe that people marching today are "irked" that they didn't march in your era, and that if they aren't it's because they don't know any better?

Not exactly, but it comes across as if they are irked that we still love something that they never had a chance to experience.

And it's not just in the drum corps world. I remember being young and thinking ( along with most of my musical friends) that MF and Buddy Rich and the like were "it" and because of limited exposure to the Dorsey Brothers, Artie Shaw and Benny Goodman, we just couldn't understand why older musicians were not 100% in love with the big bands of the 70's.

I guess it's that way with everything...................and the generations stare at each other across a Great Divide

Finally, I understand Cavies show

[BRASSO]

Stop calling todays drum corps BANDS!! BANDS PLAY RECOGNIZABLE MUSIC !!!

It is kind of ironic, when you think about it.