Tonight I felt like an old timer!

[Todd Tanji]

All afternoon I've been looking forward to coming home and watching the top 8 drum corps in the world battle it out. From what I've been reading on dcp this is shaping up to be one of the best seasons ever for drum corp. Brought the projector home from work, plugged in the bose to the laptop and prepared for an evening of big, loud and live home style version. I even had my girlfriend, someone who has never seen a drum corp show, sit on the couch watching.

I have to admit for the first time in the 25 years I've been either participating or following this activity, I finally feel like one of those "old timers" who just dont get the direction of this activity. Im not talking about electronics, vocals, preshows, or any other of the rule changes that have taken place over the last 5 to 10 years. I dont see the diversity or passion written into the shows anymore. There is no question the kids in this activity are highly trained, extremely hard workers with a passion for perfection that many of our nations youth will never achieve.

There was not a single show tonight that grabbed me, threw me down in my seat and then made me jump up before the last notes screaming like a little school girl with goose bumps covering my entire body. Did anyone else notice the crowd reaction during the performances and after the last note? Yea!!!!!!! Great job kids, we can tell you're very talented and work very hard, my ### hurts so its time to stand up!

After the Blue Devils (actually every corp) final note, and seeing the look of utter confusion on my girlfriends face, I almost felt like I needed to appologize for wasting the last few hours. I then decided I needed to show her one of my favorite shows of all time. Without saying a word I played 1988 Santa Clara Vanguard. After the corps disapeared she leaned over and said "now that was something I could get excited about and would pay to see!" I then realized what's missing from todays activity. Diversity, Flow, Melodies and Passionately written shows! Im sure I'll be blasted by the younger generation for expressing my disatisfaction and that's fine, we all have a right to an opinion. It was just a sad realization this evening that for the first time in nearly 25 years I realized I am losing touch with an activity that has given me so much joy over the years.

A few comments:

- There is a bit of irony with someone complaining about the modern state of drum corps having watched it

on the Fan Network, which was never available on the old days.

- And regarding the Fan Network, it is NOT a good way to introduce someone to drum corps. Watching drum

via a blurry, wide angle only picture isn't going to represent the live experience. It just looks like junk to the

uninitiated.

- However, assuming you are on the West Coast, you do have my sympathies not being able to see a live show

at this time of year.

- I have heard many comments about modern drum corps like this from "old timers" ... and I've been hearing them

since 1976! I know people who marched in the 1960's who thought that 1970's drum corps was too esoteric,

inaccessible, and not entertaining.

- So maybe drum corps does pass some people by. Not sure that there is anything that can be done about

that. Maybe the gap is too large. Old timers seem to like Madison this year but the activity is not going to drop

what it is doing and go entirely old school.

Oh, and I should add that, I am an old timer and I enjoy current drum corps far more than the old stuff. While

there were a lot of great shows back in the day, much of it completely bored me to tears.

Edited July 31, 2010 by BDUFLS

[tja273]

Probably not the answer you are wanting to hear - but even a spectator has to "grow" with the art form which this truly is. We would hear these same arguments in modern classical music, dance, art - whether at an art gallery or on a stage. It is part of pushing the envelope forward and trying new things on. There will be trends and fads - but when looking back there will be monumental steps taken. SO in that regard, you just have to allow yourself to be part of that process too rather than just a fan sitting in the stands expecting what you are already comfortable with.

That is where I see much criticism of the judges here. But both they and the current "fans" are digging in there and appreciating some fabulous new skill being tried with a sabre and handcuffs, or the movement that a battery can now do with a snare brace on their body, or how a horn line can continue to play while incorporating bizarre movement. Perhaps it is just an overwhelming sense of too much to watch or take in because it is out of our comfort zone? I know I am trying to strap myself around that with Blue Devils show this season: On first grasp you wonder what is the whole point? - but with patience and some scrutinizing you start to see the boundless possibilities that are presented to us and appreciate them for what they are. Open doors rather than close them.

Spoken (written) much better than I could say it.

[jwillis35]

I think the OP makes a good observation, and Jeff also made several excellent points.

In 2008 I thought DCI had one of those years where the entertainment value was good, not great, but good, with a few truly great shows in there. I am not speaking about shows that were performed well, but shows that were truly great at entertaining the audience.

In 2009 there were essentially 2 shows that I really liked, and the rest got nice golf applause because I always appreciate the hard work the kids do.

This year is, sadly, the same as 2009. 2010 has ONE show that gets a true standing O in the middle (Cavaliers), and a few shows that have some excellent moments but minus the standing O until the end. My read on 2010 is that it is a very competitive year, with 7 top corps that perform amazingly well. But in that top 7 I find the entertainment value lacking. I love Phantom's music, love Cadets music, and SCV, Cavaliers, and BLOOO have some excellent visual programs. But only the Cavaliers hit the sweet spot in their 2nd production in terms of connecting the elements in a way that gets the audience going. Why is that?

Why is it that with all that talent, all that design power (the money these corps pay for their staff) and yet ONE standing ovation? That's it: ONE!

I continue to be amazed at how hard the kids work, and the complexity of today's shows are far greater than in year's past. But I believe it gets back to the old argument that many of us have discussed before: construction of show and development of story/theme and thematic material. The visuals are complex, yes, but they happen so fast, too fast. The eye simply does not have time to take it in. You can't identify with a form or develop an emotional response to that form when it comes and goes faster than a cheetah. The music is segmented and chopped to pieces so much so that the ear has no time to comprehend what just took place. The ear needs time to process, as do our eyes. Response is not always immediate as some might think.

In general, this is why corps like Phantom Regiment have traditionally been crowd friendly, largely because their music book is developed and usually contains the right amount of thematic development, drama, highs and lows, and they are excellent at finding an over-arching apex to their programs, such as the big push in the Chevron formation this year.

The Cavaliers figured out the visual in a way that definitely improved upon the over use of speed and crazy, whiplash drill that was blinding and often went by faster than one could react to it. They utilized what I like to call sequencing (the repetitive treatment of a move, only doing so in succession with varying degrees of interaction and timing). This is why they continue to be stunning visually.

What we are not seeing in DCI is some form of perfect match between the music and the visual. Sure, in each year from 2000 - 2010 we have seen some excellent shows that managed to marry the music and visual in a stunning and entertaining way; but the majority of shows I have seen in the past 10 years have either implemented one or the other well, but their total show was lacking, certainly in ENTERTAINMENT value, largely because that connection was lost. All it takes is for one or two weak or uncoordinated elements in a show and the entertainment value is sorely lacking.

It's not just BD that has a chopped up musical book. Most of the corps do, and it is MUSIC, more so than visual, that will really drive the emotional and energetic response from a crowd. It really starts and ends with the music, and this is, to this day, where I see the greatest problems. Musical construction is hurting the entertainment value of DCI.

Edited July 31, 2010 by jwillis35

[HockeyDad]

Nothing?

Exactly. Sometimes it's better to keep your thoughts to yourself.

[bluesop08]

I think the OP makes a good observation, and Jeff also made several excellent points.

In 2008 I thought DCI had one of those years where the entertainment value was good, not great, but good, with a few truly great shows in there. I am not speaking about shows that were performed well, but shows that were truly great at entertaining the audience.

In 2009 there were essentially 2 shows that I really liked, and the rest got nice golf applause because I always appreciate the hard work the kids do.

This year is, sadly, the same as 2009. 2010 has ONE show that gets a true standing O in the middle (Cavaliers), and a few shows that have some excellent moments but minus the standing O until the end. My read on 2010 is that it is a very competitive year, with 7 top corps that perform amazingly well. But in that top 7 I find the entertainment value lacking. I love Phantom's music, love Cadets music, and SCV, Cavaliers, and BLOOO have some excellent visual programs. But only the Cavaliers hit the sweet spot in their 2nd production in terms of connecting the elements in a way that gets the audience going. Why is that?

Why is it that with all that talent, all that design power (the money these corps pay for their staff) and yet ONE standing ovation? That's it: ONE!

I continue to be amazed at how hard the kids work, and the complexity of today's shows are far greater than in year's past. But I believe it gets back to the old argument that many of us have discussed before: construction of show and development of story/theme and thematic material. The visuals are complex, yes, but they happen so fast, too fast. The eye simply does not have time to take it in. You can't identify with a form or develop an emotional response to that form when it comes and goes faster than a cheetah. The music is segmented and chopped to pieces so much so that the ear has no time to comprehend what just took place. The ear needs time to process, as do our eyes. Response is not always immediate as some might think.

In general, this is why corps like Phantom Regiment have traditionally been crowd friendly, largely because their music book is developed and usually contains the right amount of thematic development, drama, highs and lows, and they are excellent at finding an over-arching apex to their programs, such as the big push in the Chevron formation this year.

The Cavaliers figured out the visual in a way that definitely improved upon the over use of speed and crazy, whiplash drill that was blinding and often went by faster than one could react to it. They utilized what I like to call sequencing (the repetitive treatment of a move, only doing so in succession with varying degrees of interaction and timing). This is why they continue to be stunning visually.

What we are not seeing in DCI is some form of perfect match between the music and the visual. Sure, in each year from 2000 - 2010 we have seen some excellent shows that managed to marry the music and visual in a stunning and entertaining way; but the majority of shows I have seen in the past 10 years have either implemented one or the other well, but their total show was lacking, certainly in ENTERTAINMENT value, largely because that connection was lost. All it takes is for one or two weak or uncoordinated elements in a show and the entertainment value is sorely lacking.

It's not just BD that has a chopped up musical book. Most of the corps do, and it is MUSIC, more so than visual, that will really drive the emotional and energetic response from a crowd. It really starts and ends with the music, and this is, to this day, where I see the greatest problems. Musical construction is hurting the entertainment value of DCI.

This, music is what drives the emotion in a show. Back in the earlier days a fantastic hornline could win you the championship almost by itself, but now visual is such an important part of the score, almost disproportionately so, that corps that want to win have to design the music to fit the visual, instead of the other way around. Its what it takes to win, but unfortunately great visuals will never garner a standing ovation like an intense musical moment. For example, if the mid-show standing ovation for cavvies happened in the same spot it did in San Antonio, it was a pure musical moment that brought out that emotional, visceral response from the crowd. (Same thing with bloo 08 boxer shout, phantom 08, scv 09).

Music has that power, especially to a "musically educated" crowd like at a drum corps show. There is something about it that can't be put in words. Think about any intense emotional moment you've ever had, I bet you most of the time music was there in some form. I think its less the electronics or micing, and more this focus on the visual side rather than the music side.

In short, we see visuals, but feel music.

Edited July 31, 2010 by bluesop08

[md60]

how much faster can they run? How many notes can be played in 10 seconds? how many flag changes will there be. If there is no emotion in the show , no matter how good they are it doesnt matter what age you are. I am almost 50 years old and have been going to drum corps since 1977. I still go to shows because there is a chance you might get one of those moments that almost everycorps had years ago. They are few and far between. But when it happens it like a good fart. wow. Were not old timers we just want to be entertained. We love drum corps and there is no age limit to the audience. When you go to the movies you have choices and that is when you pick and choose what to see. You follow a drum corps for years and you have to like it or shut up because the new creative self promoting staffs that are overpaid and try to make a living off a youth activity dont care if you like the show. If they did you would have a much more entertaining product.

[Madrid]

You know, I love drum corps. Every bit of it. When I go on the road and teach, I still pull up to shows and get the same nervous butterflies I got when I was 17 and marching for the first time. I love seeing kids have that same feeling. I love watching them come off the field and see them become a part of something so much bigger than themselves and not even know it. I love it. I love it. I love it. All of it and every corps. I think drum corps is ####### awesome! There was a year there....2002...that I thought, "Okay, what the hell is going on here?" But then 2003 happened and all was forgiven. So, just give it time. Like everything in life, drum corps is on a constant pendulum. You don't like it this year, give it another go next year.

A bit off topic: What would be rad, though, would be to see a corps get a reaction out of both the crowd, and the judge, like this corps did. Of course, make the show contemporary and fit into today's design formulas.

Now THAT would be awesome!

Edited July 31, 2010 by Madrid

[AnaheimAlumni]

Edited July 31, 2010 by AnaheimAlumni

[Michael Boo]

Exactly. Sometimes it's better to keep your thoughts to yourself.

I'm happy to see from you and others that I'm not the only one with that opinion regarding civility. It doesn't matter whether we agree or disagree with others' opinions on the state of the activity or anything else. One wonderful thing about DCP is that we're generally encouraged to respect others' thoughts. That makes this a civil community, unlike what DCP replaced.

[Northern Thunder]

A bit off topic: What would be rad, though, would be to see a corps get a reaction out of both the crowd, and the judge, like this corps did. Of course, make the show contemporary and fit into today's design formulas'.

Now THAT would be awesome!

This is a great clip from drum corps history, but a HUGE caution to fans and members of the '79 Crossmen, who may not want to be reminded about the 1979 DCI prelims.