The Kids work hard, but I still don't like it.

[The Other Mike]

Have every paying fan in the stadium fill out a ballot on their way out and those who get the most "entertainment" votes get to split a portion of the gate.

That way you can have corps that play to the judges win the contest, and those who entertain get paid.

Watch how the shows would change !

[Matt_S]

I'm amazed at some of the comments. Automatically, if you disagree with current drum corps styles, you are a "dinosaur".

Simply disagreeing with current drum corps styles doesn't make you a dinosaur. We all have different tastes and we all like what we like. If you post that you don't like current drum corps styles and do it with respect, I guarantee you'll find respect shown to you in return.

However, when you go to a forum dedicated to discussing current drum styles, a forum populated by fans of those styles, and post something bellicose like this:

I went to be entertained. I expected to be "wowed" right out of my seat by somebody or something at some point. It was a drum and bugle corps show after all. For all the education, technique etc. that these young people are acquiring these days, I expected a lot I guess. It's suppose to be so much better than year _ _ _ _. The shows were boring. Period. I wasn't the only one who thought so, and I wasn't the first one to leave early.

I'm the paying customer. You're doing this stuff for the customer, right? You're suppose to be entertaining the customer, right? I'm saying, I didn't find it entertaining. I can appreciate the hard work and effort, but it is not entertaining. Why should I feel like I have to analyze the show and what they are trying to convey to me? Why are you musically inept if you really just wanted entertainment? To call someone musically inept because they don't like the show is ignorance. Drum corps have always done somebody else's music. So why can't I recognize it anymore?

I don't believe I have to be politically correct and all "warm and fuzzy."

You know, if somebody keeps telling you you're wonderful, if you hear it enough, that's exactly what you will think you are... but it doesn't make it true.

then yes, you can expect to be called a dinosaur. I find it very telling that your first post began with you announcing that you expected to be flamed. You knew from the start that you were couching your opinion in terms that were going to antagonize. Forgive me if I don't indulge your sense of martyrdom.

You speak in absolutes. What makes you so certain that you alone know the true way of things? Is it because you had your opinion confirmed by the actions of the others who chose to leave early as you did? Many, many more stayed for the entire show. You were a paying customer, yes, but you you were one among hundreds or thousands, depending upon the show. This Saturday I will be one among many thousands attending World Class Finals. I've only seen a handful of shows, most will be new to me, but I already believe this is a much finer season than even 2009. My favorite shows are from the past 15 years, and I fully expect this year to continue the trend. I like what takes place on the field today - and if you want me to respect your opinion, you can start by respecting mine, and acknowledging that some customers find today's shows to be very entertaining indeed.

[ecamburn]

I'm amazed at some of the comments. Automatically, if you disagree with current drum corps styles, you are a "dinosaur". I disagree. I went to be entertained. I expected to be "wowed" right out of my seat by somebody or something at some point. It was a drum and bugle corps show after all. For all the education, technique etc. that these young people are acquiring these days, I expected a lot I guess. It's suppose to be so much better than year _ _ _ _. The shows were boring. Period. I wasn't the only one who thought so, and I wasn't the first one to leave early.

I'm the paying customer. You're doing this stuff for the customer, right? You're suppose to be entertaining the customer, right? I'm saying, I didn't find it entertaining. I can appreciate the hard work and effort, but it is not entertaining. Why should I feel like I have to analyze the show and what they are trying to convey to me? Why are you musically inept if you really just wanted entertainment? To call someone musically inept because they don't like the show is ignorance. Drum corps have always done somebody else's music. So why can't I recognize it anymore?

I don't believe I have to be politically correct and all "warm and fuzzy."

You know, if somebody keeps telling you you're wonderful, if you hear it enough, that's exactly what you will think you are... but it doesn't make it true.

I didn't read the whole thread but read enough to see that plenty of folks, especially at the beginning acknowledged the value of your *personal opinion*. What more do you want? To convince people that you're right or that all of today's drum corps performances are boring? You don't like modern drum corps. Thousands of people do like modern drum corps. It is possible for both of these things to be true.

Edited August 10, 2010 by ecamburn

[ravedodger]

So I pop on for the first time in a while to see how the world of drum corps is doing. Looks like the same arguments.

Another dissatisfied customer gets flamed for giving an opinion.

OK.

I'm off to participate in the hobby that replaced drum corps for me.

Oops. I almost forgot to add that I still haven't been to a DCI show since 07 finals.

Edited August 10, 2010 by ravedodger

[CloudHype]

So I pop on for the first time in a while to see how the world of drum corps is doing. Looks like the same arguments.

Another dissatisfied customer gets flamed for giving an opinion.

OK.

I'm off to participate in the hobby that replaced drum corps for me.

Oops. I almost forgot to add that I still haven't been to a DCI show since 07 finals.

If only we where so fortunate.

[FlamMan]

I completely agree. On the other hand, there isn't a single hornline from the 70's that could keep up with the worst lines in world class today in terms of tone quality, intonation, and musicality.

Since you are a youngster, I would suggest that you listen to the 1980 & 1981 DCI CD's. Listen to Spirit & Madison in particular.

[perc2100]

So I pop on for the first time in a while to see how the world of drum corps is doing. Looks like the same arguments.

Another dissatisfied customer gets flamed for giving an opinion.

OK.

I'm off to participate in the hobby that replaced drum corps for me.

Oops. I almost forgot to add that I still haven't been to a DCI show since 07 finals.

Thanks for stopping in for the occasional trolling! Not to sound like a jerk, but if this is indicative of your DCP contribution (the pop in sniping with zero pertinent content), I'm elated that you've found a new hobby

[Jeff Ream]

In my experience, diversity is the last thing a "legacy fan" wants. Most often when I read a post like the original one in this thread, the author has a specific show or style of show that he would like to see again. It is when something new is attempted that a corps gets blasted for being non-traditional. I think there is plenty of diversity in today's show, but if you close off your mind when listening then of course it's going to sound the same. Speaking for myself, I have a hard time believing that Phantom Regiment sounds anything like the Bluecoats, to pick just two corps.

I think you'd be surprised what the legacy fans want. problem is, no one asks, they just call them dino's

[ravedodger]

Wow. And I'm glad that the people who complain most about DCP can be counted on to jump on a person who gives a valid opinion. Before you call me troll, read my posts. I'm pretty sure I've had many more positive comments than you during my time here.

[Jeff Ream]

And this is the problem with some audience members. Shows are not designed for either part to stand alone: shows are designed with the visual being JUST AS IMPORTANT as the music. This was hard for me to buy into, because I bought the CD's for nearly a decade throughout the 90's. But Cavaliers won many Championships the last ten years by designing shows where the visual is not merely complimentary to the music, but at times the music is complimentary to the visual. You can even very briefly see this philosophy at work during the ESPN broadcast in 2005, where the Cavaliers design team was discussing rewrites and the vis team said that a musical phrase had to be lengthened by a certain amount of counts in order to make a specific visual effect work better.

To think of it in another way, take movies. Living in So Cal I am fortunate that I have seen several films at test screenings that contained temp music tracks as the original score was not complete. There were scenes that just fell flat due to weaker music, or scenes that worked BETTER in the test phase because of the superior temp music. For example, I saw the movie Kick-Azz last summer, eight or nine months for the theatrical release. The movie begins as a subtle take/criticism of the contrivances of super-hero/comic-book movies (the movie ends up being a love letter to super-hero movies, but that's a TOTALLY other post ). At the 'test screening' I was at, there were some unfinished effects work and color correction, but the biggest change that I remember is all of the temp music. The movie used bits of Superman score, and Burton's Batman score (among others) to completely drive it's point home, and it worked so incredibly well that when I saw the film in theaters months later the original score wasn't as effective. Or to put it another way, there were test screenings I saw where some scenes felt flat and didn't connect with me, but when the original music was added that 100% drove the emotional point home, it worked well and maximized its effect.

Music and visual are VERY effective together, and while some examples in both mediums work well as a stand-alone, they are most effective in concert with each other. The ascending scale from Cadets 83 is kind of cool on it's own, but absolutely incredible with hearing it accompany that Z-pull. I LOVE hearing that, mostly because when I hear it on CD (and hear the crowd reaction) I know that the music is there merely to support the visual moment, and it's impossible for me to separate the Z-pull from the music: I hear the phrase, and instantly think of the visual phrase no matter what circumstances. Hearing BD 76 Channel One Sweet's big push is a great music moment, but I will always remember the corps in their park and blow formation, dripping confidence and swagger as they blow the crowds faces off. Drum corps is a visual as well as audio medium, and especially now-a-days it is impossible to remove half of the element from the package and still expect a complete product.

i think the problem, IMO, is now visual is more important than the musical.