Pioneer

[bawker]

Great sense of huor, Tom. You can't get people on DCP to agree on the time of day. Talk about a recipe for disaster. It would be a circular firing squad.

Well, depending on who actually ponied up the money . . .there would at least be a shared unspoken goal to do what was best for the corps. It's how to arrive at the decision of what's "best" that would be the issue.

By and large, most everyone here loves drum corps in some way, shape or form.

[Ed from Kansas]

Well, depending on who actually ponied up the money . . .there would at least be a shared unspoken goal to do what was best for the corps. It's how to arrive at the decision of what's "best" that would be the issue.

By and large, most everyone here loves drum corps in some way, shape or form.

And herein lies the problem. Everyone has a different idea as to what is "best" for a corps. Having marched or even working with a corps as a tech is not sufficient experience to determine what is best. Virtually every person, given the same set of circumstances, will make a decision based on his experience and feelings. No way to run a railroad, or a drum corps.

An organization such as this would make the U. S. Government look like the model of efficiency and logical reasoning. Like I said, great sense of humor, Tom.

[shostahoosier]

To all the Pioneer supporters out there...

I frankly am negative about more corps than just Pioneer...not all the corps, but more than Pioneer.

They were once the premier Div. II corps in the world. I watched other corps self destruct in trying to chase them for a title. They were the cream of the crop in Div. II and wore it with appropriate swagger at the time.

This current version of the corps is a shadow of its former self. The causes are too numerous to mention except to say..stuck in time. That's the very definition of a relic is. Stuck in time. So tied to tradition, to the ways that used to work. Well, life moved on. Drum corps changed. Relic. Appreciated by some...maybe even many.

The analogy I make is with Star's alumni performance in LOS on semifinals night. I didn't stay to watch it. I couldn't because I knew it would be merely a shadow of what this corps was. Heck, they weren't around long enough to build a huge alumni base. I just knew it was going to be a disappointment.

Pioneer strangely enough has a similar alumni problem. Most of Pioneer's alums are ageouts of other corps...sort of a split allegiance. Many support the corps they aged out of...got rings with, etc. That makes it even harder for Pioneer to tap them for much needed cash.

And as sad as it is to see...cash is the calling card in today's drum corps. Without it, the activity becomes increasingly difficult.

So, I am negative, not about Roman, or the members, but how this once mighty Midwest powerhouse can drift so far from where it was when it was great. A time when a troop of the stands was looked forward to. A different time. Very different time.

This whole thread had been..."interesting", but this is one of the most bizarre posts I've ever come across.

RE: Star, it seems like everyone else was really happy about their performance. Either way, do you avoid every alumni performance because of this fear? Either way, Star was only around for about 10 years, but Brass Theater and Blast Alumni were included too. I have a friend who's only experience with the group is Star United and she was even allowed to perform that night. I dont understand how you just "knew it was going to be a big dissapointment". Epic fail in insight on your part.

As for Pioneer, I have a hard time believing that a change in their uniforms or the church stance will do any good. Are you aware of some of the hazing that STILL occurs in World Class corps? I would gladly choose church over some of the things I saw the less fortunate members get "ordered" to do by vets...and this wasnt even 10 years ago. As for Pioneer's alumni...they've been around for almost 50 and they've been an open class corps for about 13 years, so I'm sure there are alumni out there that could get things moving. That's what it took for the Blue Stars.

I dont understand why this topic has to be so mean. And what about the other corps that rarely, if ever, make semi-finals? Why has there been no dissection of their shortcomings?

[idontwan2know]

You can't buy what Roman won't sell.

My understanding is that someone already tried and was told to pound sand.

[Tom Brace]

This whole thread had been..."interesting", but this is one of the most bizarre posts I've ever come across.

RE: Star, it seems like everyone else was really happy about their performance. Either way, do you avoid every alumni performance because of this fear? Either way, Star was only around for about 10 years, but Brass Theater and Blast Alumni were included too. I have a friend who's only experience with the group is Star United and she was even allowed to perform that night. I dont understand how you just "knew it was going to be a big dissapointment". Epic fail in insight on your part.

As for Pioneer, I have a hard time believing that a change in their uniforms or the church stance will do any good. Are you aware of some of the hazing that STILL occurs in World Class corps? I would gladly choose church over some of the things I saw the less fortunate members get "ordered" to do by vets...and this wasnt even 10 years ago. As for Pioneer's alumni...they've been around for almost 50 and they've been an open class corps for about 13 years, so I'm sure there are alumni out there that could get things moving. That's what it took for the Blue Stars.

I dont understand why this topic has to be so mean. And what about the other corps that rarely, if ever, make semi-finals? Why has there been no dissection of their shortcomings?

I am ready to dissect Mandarins as soon as you'd like.

So, me...not wanting to see Star United makes the post...bizarre? Because I prefer to see drum corps and not a reminiscence of what was and used to be makes it an epic fail?

I don't go to DCA because I do not prefer all age corps. I like DCI drum corps instead.

As far as hazing, what you are saying in essence is that you know hazing does not occur in Pioneer. Well, that's good to hear.

[Staxrocks93]

This whole thread had been..."interesting", but this is one of the most bizarre posts I've ever come across.

RE: Star, it seems like everyone else was really happy about their performance. Either way, do you avoid every alumni performance because of this fear? Either way, Star was only around for about 10 years, but Brass Theater and Blast Alumni were included too. I have a friend who's only experience with the group is Star United and she was even allowed to perform that night. I dont understand how you just "knew it was going to be a big dissapointment". Epic fail in insight on your part.

As for Pioneer, I have a hard time believing that a change in their uniforms or the church stance will do any good. Are you aware of some of the hazing that STILL occurs in World Class corps? I would gladly choose church over some of the things I saw the less fortunate members get "ordered" to do by vets...and this wasnt even 10 years ago. As for Pioneer's alumni...they've been around for almost 50 and they've been an open class corps for about 13 years, so I'm sure there are alumni out there that could get things moving. That's what it took for the Blue Stars.

I dont understand why this topic has to be so mean. And what about the other corps that rarely, if ever, make semi-finals? Why has there been no dissection of their shortcomings?

Bizarre would be putting it mildly!

[shostahoosier]

I am ready to dissect Mandarins as soon as you'd like.

So, me...not wanting to see Star United makes the post...bizarre? Because I prefer to see drum corps and not a reminiscence of what was and used to be makes it an epic fail?

I don't go to DCA because I do not prefer all age corps. I like DCI drum corps instead.

As far as hazing, what you are saying in essence is that you know hazing does not occur in Pioneer. Well, that's good to hear.

No...what makes your posts bizarre are your comments which show a gross lack of insight, yet you spread them as gospel.

I also dont think you stopped bothering Madison because they changed...I think you did so because a real physical person contacted you. This board would be so much more civil if people werent able to hide behind their computer.

[bobchilds]

Go back to being "THE THING."

[Tom Brace]

No...what makes your posts bizarre are your comments which show a gross lack of insight, yet you spread them as gospel.

I also dont think you stopped bothering Madison because they changed...I think you did so because a real physical person contacted you. This board would be so much more civil if people werent able to hide behind their computer.

You are a bit delusional on both counts. But hey...thanks for playing.

You have a very nice drum corps!

[JTarka]

In response to this thread in general:

I have been a part of the Pioneer Family for several years now (both as a member and staff). Many of the opinions expressed here are based on very limited knowledge (if any) of the corps' internal operations. The answer to Pioneer moving up in rank is not as simple as "loosing the hats" or "stop going to church" or "getting rid of the plaid". These are all minute details in the whole grand scheme of things. Now, there are some very valid suggestions in this thread, but I hope everyone understands that it is much easier said than done. Implementing changes on this scale is not something that just happens over night... it takes a lot of preparation, hard work, and time. Several changes were discussed and implemented through out this past season, which (as I hope many have seen) took the corps a step in the right direction. Pioneer plans to continue on this path forward and grow more each season. Whatever your view is on this matter, I hope you understand that Pioneer is a great organization. Is it perfect? No... but all corps have areas with room for improvement. All I know for sure, is that Pioneer has given me the 4 best summers of my life that I wouldn't trade for anything, and I am forever grateful to Pioneer (and Roman) for that! I look forward to hopefully continuing with Pioneer on it's path forward.

"Better Every Day",

JTarka