The 150 member increase.

[txpride]

How many times is someone going to correct you.

This topic should be closed

What a stupid and nazi thing to say. Oh sure, silence me and this whole topic because of a couple of mistakes.

And to answe you, I was only correctly corrected once or twice. And perhaps another time on my own.

Hey, at least I'm willing to own up to my mistakes - which is more than I can say about anyone here trying to refute me.

Listen, I'm not near my DVD player. Have not been since 6am this morning. I'm going off of memory. I'LL TELL YOU WHAT... I will promise to you all that I will go back through my 2009 DVDs and count all hornline numbers 3 times each some time tomorrow, write them all down by the third count and post them all by Monday morning 10am at the latest. We'll see how many mistakes I make (and have made that have not been corrected. Deal? Good, I'm going to bed and will come back to this thread with those figures by Monday.

[txpride]

Show me a corps that could attract enough talent to fill a 60 person guard and actually clean it. I doubt even the Blue Devils could do that. Even more so for percussion. There is a reason lines are the size they are - balance and execution.

Thanks for proving my point. the 150 number is therefore not a realistic and widely attainable goal (according to your very own statement regarding the needed guard figure to fill out a corps with 72 or less brass). Thanks for clarifying.

[txpride]

You did not refute anything, sorry.

I've refuted plenty. Just because you don't agree does not mean I'm automatically wrong in my facts. But fear not. If it's facts you want, I'll be sure and keep my promise from two posts up and recount all of my 09 figures. I'll even take it a step further and post the minute numbers for the DVD spot from which I count each hornline. That way, if someone else wants to check my work, they can do so using the same spot I counted from.

Want to call my "homework incomplete"? Fine, I'll go back and re-do it all and will make an A+ 100% on my assignment.

2009 official figures coming at you by 10AMcst Monday morning. Get ready to see someone other than myself "stand corrected" at last. I will list each corps' hornline. I might try to even give full corps figures it possible. Though guard and pit might be hard.

[Bruckner8]

Quite a few of your 2009 figures are wrong. I know this for a fact and have the DVDs to prove it. Cavies did not have 80 in 09, Boston did not have 80 in 09 and neither did Bluecoats. I know, they probably listed it as so on paper but all you have to do is find a good set like a company front where all horn players can be counted easily and my point will be proven.

Actually, I'll leave room for correction on one. Cavies were hard to count. I might be off on that one but I know I'm right about the others.

and, when someone posted the 2009 Bluecoats final set, and said "count them yourself," you said:

I am not arguing Bluecoats. Next...

We're done. Thank you for playing.

[MikeD]

Yes, I do blame Hop. He proposed it, and after rallying the other elite corps who it likewise benefited, he manipulated (and in some cases intimidated) the rest of the little people to submit. Just like he does with every other selfish proposal he makes.

You REALLY think the bulk of the corps directors, who you are calling "the little people", are mindless lemmings who do not vote what they think is best?

How is it 'selfish' to propose raising the member limit to fill out three modern busses...that is why there were 128 in the first place, when busses were smaller.

[MikeD]

Ok, I just now realized (and noticed) how much hyperbolic entrapment was in your original question.

No, I don't thinlk you should find the corps with the "LOWEST" number of members and make that the limit. That IS a terrible idea.

What I AM suggesting is rather to figure out the AVERAGE number among the World Class member corps and make THAT the limit. That IS a good idea. No, actually it's a GREAT idea. A whole lot better than the current extreme where the elite are saying "what's wrong Johnny Glassmen, can't you fill your corps". That is more than just "unfair". It's competitive BULLYING!

So you want to deny some number of current members the ability to march the corps of their dreams....as has been said, in most cases those cut from their "dream corps" just do not march elsewhere.

[N.E. Brigand]

Count them yourself: Bluecoats 2009

Well, if he won't...

I counted three times, and each time got 78 brass on the field. Are the two sitting on the DM podium also brass? (Can't remember; haven't seen this show since last year.)

[cage]

I have been refuting this throughout this discussion. I marched those years. 90 % of your top 25 corps WERE at 128. That's a lot different than 5-7 with 150

Looking back at scores through "From the Pressbox," we haven't had a top 25 that were all in the top level since 1988. As I am sure you know it was the lower divisions that made the number get up and over 25 at quarterfinals since then.

[corpsband]

150 is about the max for me. It's already starting to look cluttered on the field for a lot of corps. Please no more increases.

Since the limit increase was just based on filling out empty seats on a coach bus, the next incremental increase would be another full bus (ie 200 members). Adding woodwinds would be 160 more kids and three buses (one of the reasons woodwinds will not be marching in DCI). While I don't agree things look cluttered with 80 horns, I do agree that it is very near the upper limit for "un-cluttered-ness".

[cage]

Ok, I went through the 1987 legacy DVD. First of all, you may find that I might be off by 1 or 2 brass. If it wasn't clear I counted again and went with the higher number. Field percussion should be spot on. A couple of the guards I could be off on because of characters in Star's, VK, and SCV's shows. I might be one low and I gave each corps 2 drum majors. So take it for what it's worth...if anything.

This is how I will do it...

corps - brass - snare/tenors/bass drum/cymbals if any = ? - guard - pit - dm=?

Garfield - 75 - 8/4/5=17 - 26 - 7 - 2 = 127

SCV - 70 - 7/6/5/4 = 22 - 28 - 7 - 1 = 128

Cavies 68 - 7/5/5 = 17 28 - 7 - 2 = 122

BD 64 - 10/5/5/5 = 25 - 25 - 7 - 2 = 123

PR 70 - 11/4/5 = 20 28 - 6 - 2 = 126

Scouts 66 - 7/4/5/5 = 21 24 - 7 - 2 = 120

Star 70 - 7/5/5 = 17 24 - 7 - 2 = 120 characters in guard count?

VK 63 - 8/3/5/5 = 21 25 - 8 - 2 = 119 characters in guard count?

Suncoast 57 - 8/5/6/5 = 24 30 - 7 - 2 = 118

Spirit 61 - 7/4/5/4 = 20 29 - 6 - 2 = 118

Coats 56 - 7/5/6/4 = 22 30 - 7 - 2 = 116

Ryders 58 - 7/4/5 = 16 35 - 9 - 2 = 122

So we have a 19 horn disparity between top and bottom and only four corps had more members than Sky Ryders. They are my counts. I have the 3 VHS set from 1999. If I get bored again maybe I'll check that out. Field percussion also ranged from 16 - 25.

Edited August 22, 2010 by cage