If DCI were to allow woodwinds, would you continue to support the acti

[Jeff Ream]

Brass Band is an entity of non-change.

Drum Corps is an entity of change.

...and Ive already made the claim that current drum corps (brass only) is already perceived by the masses as a souped up halftime show, or battle of the bands. My 16 yr old niece called it such this summer...with pride! "Wow, this is like the Olympics of Battle of the Bands! Only the super excellent are here!" She didn't even notice it was brass only...nor care. I had to point it out to her.

It's the insiders that want to protect the brass. The outsiders just want to be excellently entertained.

believe it or not, many non fans who became fans loved it because it WASN'T marching band with woodwinds. in fact it's been said here many, many times.

[WOOHOO]

This is your quote, "I couldn't care less what thing they hold in their hands". Which also means that you would pay the same amount for tickets, transportation, motel, souvies, et all that you are currently do even if it were a DCI kazoo ensemble contest. Otherwise, you "do" care about what they hold in their hands.

I never wrote that anywhere in this thread; nor have I posted my opinion either for or against woodwinds in this thread.

Your opinion is not wrong; just seeing if you "really" believe in that statement of not caring what they play; nothing more.

Of course I meant what I said, I really don't care, as long as it is performed well.

[Jeff Ream]

For every stubborn quitter, might there be 2 or more new lovers?

It's a question that every viable business asks each day.

yet all the new toys are not packing them in. so many people want to conveniently ignore this fact

[Stu]

What exactly do you mean by putting your money where your mouth is? I spend money at other souvie booths. Are you saying I should donate to a corps so that next year I can take my donation away? That doesn't make any sense.

This souvie person issue has already been debated in another thread, so let's move on shall we.

Edited September 3, 2010 by Stu

[N.E. Brigand]

When you go see a professional theatre musical, are they cheating by mic'ing the performers and running the pit through a sound board?

I sometimes find it so. Mic'ing musicals is a relatively recent development: Robert Preston and Zero Mostel weren't using microphones in their musical stage triumphs. And even after decades of use, it still often sounds unnatural. And that's with hours or days to tweak the sound! No, I see little hope for mic'd drum corps sounding good.

And even if they could, I hold to the idea that one of the fundamental aspects of drum corps is acoustically overcoming the challenge of sounding good in a big (and preferably outdoor) venue. To mic is to take away the challenge: to play tennis with no net. You might as well program the whole show into the synthesizers. At the very least, I suggest a small penalty be imposed for every microphone used: say, two-tenths of a point. Let the corps weigh that risk against the chance of a higher effect score.

Consider an example that has been noted a few times in discussions of electronics: Santa Clara's "Miss Saigon" helicopter effect. Suppose they were competing against another corps who was creating the same sound electronically. I don't think those two groups should be scored equally.

"Loudness" isn't scored on the sheets, so there's no extra credit for working harder than you have to.

Maybe not as such, but surely presenting a range of dynamics is scored. And almost every fan on these forums loves loud. And even some judges, as noted in reports that kevingamin gave from the press boxes over the summer, were visibly pleased by effective big moments.

[jjeffeory]

Really? There's no way they can rehearse as much in high school as in drum corps. Have they more natural talent?

Likely.... Perhaps a better design too?

[jjeffeory]

First, send me some links of those marching bands.

Second, your analogy doesn't work because you're making a class judgment within the setup: You're already setting us up to believe that "good Italian Pasta" is superior to "canned Ravioli." You're trying to say "w/o WW" is the Pasta, and "w/WW" is the Ravioli. A better anaology would be to say that two "Good Italaian Pastas" but one of them has red pepper and one doesn't. Strictly a matter of taste. It doesn't ruin the excellence of the dish, it's just different.

It's OK to dislike red pepper....just quit telling me it ruins the pasta.

Well look at several of GN champions from any year and compare them to 10-12th place finalists. We're never going to be able to "prove" which is better because they'll never be judged at the same show, so I realize that it's a pretty subjective assertion.

I think my analogy works fine, I wasn't trying to make a class judgement. I'm trying to say that they're different animals with different ingredients intended for different audiences. Some people would call Ravioli spaghetti or pasta.... Talk to an Italian, and they'd laugh at the thought. It's a classic example that I've seen used in cases such as the one we are discussing...

Drum Corps are marching bands, but marching bands aren't drum corps. One is a subset of the other, but it is those differences that make drum corps special. It isn't rehearsal time, difficulty, or excellence. It's the instrumentation and characteristic sound that make them different. Both have colorguard. Both have percussion. Both use brass instruments ( Some marching bands do not use brass instruments ( Bagpipe, Fifes)). Add woodwinds, and the distinction completely disappears. In the past, the style of shows between the two ensembles were different, but today, not so much...

I want to enjoy marching band for what it is and would like to see drum corps remain distinct. As many have pointed out, there were several summer marching band circuits around in the past Marching Bands of America ( BOA, MFA), and that other circuit that ended almost a decade ago. I do not need more of that in the summer. I have it in the fall.

BTW, I like red pepper in pasta.

[mlubandgroupie]

As long as the quality of the shows stayed the same. YES! The quality is what attracted me to drum corps.

I tell my friends/family that it is like a semi-professional marching band. Those that I've begged, pleaded with, and bribed to attend shows with me have no knowledged of the past rules or the current wars, but are impressed with the quality of the shows. (ie: the quality of sound, difficulty of the music, the speed and cleanness of drill, the dance/acrobatics/etc of the guard)

This site has introduced me to a new group of people...Drum Corp Snobs. :-)

[garfield]

Well look at several of GN champions from any year and compare them to 10-12th place finalists. We're never going to be able to "prove" which is better because they'll never be judged at the same show, so I realize that it's a pretty subjective assertion.

I think my analogy works fine, I wasn't trying to make a class judgement. I'm trying to say that they're different animals with different ingredients intended for different audiences. Some people would call Ravioli spaghetti or pasta.... Talk to an Italian, and they'd laugh at the thought. It's a classic example that I've seen used in cases such as the one we are discussing...

Drum Corps are marching bands, but marching bands aren't drum corps. One is a subset of the other, but it is those differences that make drum corps special. It isn't rehearsal time, difficulty, or excellence. It's the instrumentation and characteristic sound that make them different. Both have colorguard. Both have percussion. Both use brass instruments ( Some marching bands do not use brass instruments ( Bagpipe, Fifes)). Add woodwinds, and the distinction completely disappears. In the past, the style of shows between the two ensembles were different, but today, not so much...

I want to enjoy marching band for what it is and would like to see drum corps remain distinct. As many have pointed out, there were several summer marching band circuits around in the past Marching Bands of America ( BOA, MFA), and that other circuit that ended almost a decade ago. I do not need more of that in the summer. I have it in the fall.

BTW, I like red pepper in pasta.

I am Italian and Ravioli IS pasta. A more apt comparison would be pasta in marinara sauce v. veal saltimboca. Both are Italian, and couldn't possibly be more different.

Now I'm hungry.

[ShortAndFast]

For every stubborn quitter, might there be 2 or more new lovers?

It's a question that every viable business asks each day.

Well, it's not like we're asking this question out of the blue. The last 10 years have seen DCI introduce Bb, amps, voice & electronics. Almost all of DCI's marketing during this period has been directed towards high school bands. And there definitely has been growth in the number of high school band students attending shows. Also, unquestionably, some existing fans have left.

Were they replaced 2:1? Has the total audience grown substantially? Of the new audience members attracted, what percentage were still attending shows 5 years after their first one? What is the average amount spent annually on the activity by a new audience member vs. those who left?

In a viable business, by this point those in favor of this approach would be required to demonstrate the results achieved and the trends observed. So ... how's it going?