Raising DCI's Ageout Limit

[Tom Brace]

It's for the kids. Let it stay that way. We have DCA, and it's better than ever. (no dis on the kids, work yo thang! ;) )

We have DCA in some areas of the country. I would see DCI upping the age limit leading to more opportunities and more potential membership so more DCI corps could emerge. I do not see anything wrong with this. DCA is not affiliated with DCI so since this is about DCI, any DCA references are superfluous to the subject at hand. We've had DCA around for awhile. What we haven't had is new ideas on how DCI could grow.

DCI growth is good and needed as many people on this forum continue to point out. Now, it appears that to some, DCI can grow as long as it remains limited in age requirements. One circuit is growing by their own admission...and it is all age. Now, I see some of these same people against an idea which may lead to growth for DCI.

I find this interesting. I admit, if I was a DCA advocate, I would be saying the same thing. It's called protecting their flank. Got it.

[JohnDonovanDotBiz]

Wow, I don't even know where to start with this thread. This thread completely hit me upside the head.

I have to keep in mind with my response, and accept that virtually everyone that graduates from DCI, have the same thing in common: the fire and passion behind musical performance for most DIES, and becomes a memory. Holding that horn up to your face, or holding a pair of stick in your hands looses all priority. Face it, this is an important backbone of this market. If everyone went pro, the stands would have A LOT LESS people in it being that weekends are the bread and butter to pros in the non-military musical performance workforce. On the other end, if EVERYONE went pro there would be a lot less garbage in the workforce, and the standards for what defines mainstream music would increase ten fold.

Ok. I understand that the age out concept exists to boot the older ones out and let the newer students in, however what if it didn't have to be this way?? What if DCI was broken down into it's own age brackets. Keep the minors 14-18 in one division, have another division for 18-22, and have another division even if it's only one corps, that has 22 and up. NOW JOHN THAT'S WHAT DCA IS FOR??! WRONG. DCA doesn't go on full tour. And for the few of us that VALUE drum corps education so highly, as vocational training, we have an option to always go back to upgrade our skills. If there was an all age DCI corps doing a full tour, I would make immediate plans within 2 or three seasons to do it. Why? Right off the bat, I'd wanna shake off this mid 90's technique of playing through the drum and focus on the rebound the way it's done today. Far less energy is being exerted, which means the longer your hands will last you, and keep you working longer in the workforce. And I would make money in a heartbeat doing this all summer.. how? OH JOHN THATS IMPOSSIBLE!! TWO WORDS.. REALITY TV. $$$$$$$ ESP if it was only one super-group, the cult following would be huge. The moment we arrive at the starting gate, our own crowd would flood the stadium, and when we are done, would leave.

And this whole talk about DCI being so expensive?? Duh, I knew this. I didn't' come from money. I had to take off 95 from BUCS, the year i finally made it to the snareline when i was 19, after doing a year on bass and a year on quadz, so that I could save up to do DCI. Did I wait tables? uhh no.. i made the Hershey park marching band which at the time "before crossmen bit the big one during the fall of 96," had a lot of x men alum in it. I was very lucky to march with dale sellers who was our MD. dale sellers was the red headed tenor players in x men 92..the super year.. my point, if someone is determined to march dci, they will make it happen. money is no excuse.. u work for it.. and your gonna make a lot more money using your sticks then u will waiting tables. get a return on your investment!

IF dci went all age - what effect would it have on dca? i dont see one. dca is weekend only. an all age dci corps would attract 1. wealthy people "the back bone" 2. those who want to continue there vocational training on a full tour. 3. perhaps even band directors being accused of becoming soft and content, can "refresh," for a year.

Mr jeff ream - i love all ur posts, but this one: "you dont make a good career or resume playing drum corps full time at 30?" depends what u do, doesnt it :)

mr jim f - might kill interest? how about spark the interest for new corps to be started?

drillmansop06 - drum corps doesnt end mentally for some. for those few of us that go into the workforce as performers, from some of us, drum corps and what it taught us are very much part of what we do. and i like i said before, some of us would jump at the chance to get re-conditioned with todays techniques..every year for me is another season of drum corps, more plans, more playing etc. only difference is that the types of team members change and you get paid.

i cant believe the disrespect some of you openly display towards each other. omg!

mr woohoo - im really proud by your statement presenting the idea of a corps paying salary, etc.. the marines already beat ya to it :) on the other hand, if we in civilian life had to do it, the corps would have to be able to pack the stands to pay its expenses, and that would take a new set of minds to manage. esp those minds that aged out and made it in the real big music game after ageing out. by you even saying what you did: YOU GAINED MY RESPECT WHOEVER YOU ARE!

mr Scerpella - so training to play music full time to be the best is being an adolescent? just curious on what you meant.

ANYONE CAN AFFORD TO DO DCI IF THEY PROPERLY PLAN IT OUT!

wow, Ive actually taken insult to some of these posts.... as would anyone else in the same boat...

drill man sop.. if this weekend model existed, i dont feel your statement is universal... pioneer is full touring and gets smacked by surf which is only weekend.

mr. tom brace .. dca needing competition? i think dci and dca need to appeal to the masses first and learn to work together. you had a good idea, an alum division.. another idea, which doesnt take a brain surgeon to put together... one event a year... dca vs dci super card match!!!

**side note** if someone gave Bob Jacobs a zillion dollars to go on full tour, im positive they would make finals the first year if not top 8**

Mr. Jacobs has not let me down ONCE in the 13 years I have been an alum of that fine corps.

mr. animal - you can afford to do dci right now... you are a music major? play your instrument for cash.. find me on facebook, ill mentor you like i do a ton of other people and dont ask for anything in return.. why? one of my ways of giving back...

thank you...

Edited September 19, 2010 by JohnDonovanDotBiz

[drumno5]

When was the last time 14-16 year old marched in a top 12 corps? Probably 20 years ago before the big boys started closing their ranks to kids who weren't college age music music and dance majors.

No argument that the typical World Class finalist is likely comprised of members who are for the most part well above the 14-16 year old age range; But could we please stop with the "music and dance majors" baloney?

Fred O.

[drumno5]

QUOTE (garfield_cadets @ Sep 19 2010, 09:29 AM) *

It's for the kids adults, 18-22. Let it stay that way. We have DCA, and it's better than ever. (no dis on the kids, work yo thang! ;) )

Fixed.

Yawn...

Fred O.

[wturner901]

I want an extra year... would love to hear for the age out rule to be adjusted so everyone gets their "bonus year"

[Fran Haring]

Fran, I honestly didn't know. No cheap shot intended.

Thanks, Tom. Apologies for going semi-ballistic on you.

DCA and DCI, as governing entities, are different, in their current configuration.

[JimF-LowBari]

mr jim f - might kill interest? how about spark the interest for new corps to be started?

John, unfortunately what I'm seeing posted is a lot of people try out for the big names but a small percentage feel it's worth their while (time and money) to be with a non-top corps. So getting members for new corps, which would be towards the bottom as they start up, would be a problem. Second problem is the cost of starting up a new corps no matter what the size is. Don't like the perception of "if it ain't the best, it ain't worth it" but it's out there and IMO is one of the things DCI needs to address.

To fully explain my comment (and keeping the above in mind). I could see people who never marched corps before wanting to join a (top) corps but.... with vets being able to join for a longer time than before, the odds of a newbie making the cut goes down. As the odds of making the corps go down, I can see less people bothering with their time or money to try.

On the other side, totally agree on hitting 22 and the priorities change. In my case and many of my corpsmates, getting that initial J.O.B. took precidence over everything. LOL, for me it was still doing corps or working rotating shifts (one free weekend a month) to get my foot in the door of my career. Think I only saw two shows that year, and had to take vacation time to see all of DCA Finals.

Oh yeah, Hershey Park Marching Band Too bad I haven't been in that joint in years. Talk about being able to afford something....

Edited September 20, 2010 by JimF-LowBari

[JKatzmellophone]

This. Hrothgar, the fact that you would compare the DCA experience to the full-summer-close-quarters environment of the DCI tour tells me you don't quite understand the ethical issues arising from the simple nature of the tour. There is no way in the world I'd want 14 year olds and 26 year olds together in the same corps over that duration of time. It's already a slight issue when dealing with minors vs. those of age.

Some things you need to experience to understand; DCI summer tour is one of them.

I really don't understand the debate at all on either end. I toured as a 14 year old as a member of the Bayonne Bridgemen in the early 80's. I was the youngest member of the corps. I wasn't treated any differently then the members of legal age. The members of the corps treated me like a little brother. It was a fantastic experience.

As for upping the age limit. There is an element of Drum Corps person who can't live without having corps in their lives.. I would be a good example. I would have loved to continue marching beyond the average age out year. But life doesn't exactly bode the same for member who are not, KIDS anymore. Where does the money come from? Mom and Dad!?!? Not likely. They didn't spend $40K a year for college for you to graduate and still live at home, not have a full time job.. and continue to be your sole source of income so you can continue to tour with a Drum Corps. Sr corps as it was called in the past was the place where Jr corps age outs went to maintain their Drum Corps prowess while still maintaining a life, a family, and career. Even before DCA came to be.

There is no need or necessity to up the age. Most kids by the time they age out are now looking to teach themselves. Although.. I can see opening the age limit up to allow staff to fill spots if a corps can't find someone to fill a hole.

[MikeD]

no one graduates in four years anymore...maybe kinesiology (sp?) majors, but that's about it... ESPECIALLY not music majors

My daughter graduated in 3 1/2 years by taking summer courses at our local community college.

[DrillmanSop06]

I really don't understand the debate at all on either end. I toured as a 14 year old as a member of the Bayonne Bridgemen in the early 80's. I was the youngest member of the corps. I wasn't treated any differently then the members of legal age. The members of the corps treated me like a little brother. It was a fantastic experience.

As for upping the age limit. There is an element of Drum Corps person who can't live without having corps in their lives.. I would be a good example. I would have loved to continue marching beyond the average age out year. But life doesn't exactly bode the same for member who are not, KIDS anymore. Where does the money come from? Mom and Dad!?!? Not likely. They didn't spend $40K a year for college for you to graduate and still live at home, not have a full time job.. and continue to be your sole source of income so you can continue to tour with a Drum Corps. Sr corps as it was called in the past was the place where Jr corps age outs went to maintain their Drum Corps prowess while still maintaining a life, a family, and career. Even before DCA came to be.

There is no need or necessity to up the age. Most kids by the time they age out are now looking to teach themselves. Although.. I can see opening the age limit up to allow staff to fill spots if a corps can't find someone to fill a hole.

I was going to point out that being exposed to those of older ages gives students a role model to look up to and emulate and allows the older ones to take the younger ones under their wings. That being said, 26 to 14 is NOT ethically sound. That's a third year teacher and a freshman in high school.