Mello Dude Posted January 3, 2011 Share Posted January 3, 2011 I don't know anything about playing a marimba, nor did I claim to, nor did I even mention a marimba in my post. I do know something about playing a trumpet, having played that instrument in a dozen or more different contexts. In each of these situations, I have had to adjust my playing technique on the instrument--to a greater or lesser degree, depending on the setting. Playing lead in a jazz band requires a radically different approach to the instrument than playing second trumpet on a Beethoven piece in an orchestra--perhaps, even, different equipment. There are probably a lot of instructors in the classical and concert band worlds that would be horrified by what is considered to be the "correct" approach to playing lead trumpet in a big band, as compared to what they teach the trumpets their ensemble. Does that make them right, and the jazz band guy wrong? I don't think so--different and correct approaches for different situations. I would expect the technique for playing a marimba in a 50,000 seat football stadium in a drum corps to be different than the technique for playing the same instrument in a 1,000 seat concert hall in a wind ensemble. Just like all the other instruments in those ensembles. That is all. Drum corps kids haven't been "off the streets" kids in forever. I was one of those middle class music major types. But when I walked in the room and they handed me a two valve G bugle, I rightly assumed that things were going to be different. Why is it bad that they did things differently from my h.s. band? I learned a ton (and different things) from both. Isn't that why kids do different things? I would hate to think that today's kids aren't flexible or open-minded enough to learn and apply different techniques and ideas. If that's the case, they will have a hard time as professional musicians. BTW, I prefer my drum corps loud and raucous, it was one of the reasons I signed up! I don't know that this is a fact. I'm aware that many drum corps have closely aligned themselves with the concert band world, in fact many of the instructors split time between the two. I am not necessarily a fan of the results that this marriage has produced, so you may have a hard time convincing me that it's a good thing. I also have a pretty wide palate of sounds that I would consider "good sound", depending on context, so perhaps we are involved in a fundamental difference in philosophy where music is concerned. Is there one "correct" technique to playing an instrument? I'm not sure there is. Not in the least. I was one of those kids, after all. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Michael Boo Posted January 3, 2011 Share Posted January 3, 2011 What the heck is this thread about again? It's about how the few seconds of a vocalist at the beginning of "Angels in the Architecture" and again at the very end constitutes a "major part" of a show none of us have heard yet. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
monoemono Posted January 3, 2011 Share Posted January 3, 2011 It's about how the few seconds of a vocalist at the beginning of "Angels in the Architecture" and again at the very end constitutes a "major part" of a show none of us have heard yet. And how "Bluecoats" is one word! Thanks, as always, for your diligent efforts in this matter, Mr. Boo. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mello Dude Posted January 3, 2011 Share Posted January 3, 2011 And how "Bluecoats" is one word! Thanks, as always, for your diligent efforts in this matter, Mr. Boo. We all have our own windmills to slay. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
charlie1223 Posted January 3, 2011 Share Posted January 3, 2011 Interesting...so you must think a sculpture and a painting are the same thing as well? Art is rather a general term don't you think? There are many types or "art" that have specific names that have a "meaning". what is interesting is that you think the categories of art created "art", and not the other way around. Do you think someone who made the first cave painting said... "I am going to make a painting"? Do you think Pablo Picaso said. "I think I'm going to make a style of painting called Cubism"? The names came AFTER THE FACT. We use the names to describe things after they happened just for the sake of categorization and language. I honestly have no idea how you came to the conclusion that I think sculpture and painting are the same thing. What you or I think or believe is irrelevant. What is meant by certain terms and their definitions is important aka reality. Now, if DCI is a church, and you have to believe their gospel as aboslute truth as a cult or zealot would, I understand what you are trying to convince yourself and others means to you. First of all I hope that by "you" you aren't referring to "me" because then we might have some issues with you putting words in my mouth. DCI does not control the definition of DCI. Everyone in a collective society does. If I said the word "Military" what would I be referring to? You can look it up and get the definition but is that really enough? What kind of military? Ancient civilization military? 100 year old military? modern military. They are all distinctly different, but still called military. If I said drum and bugle corps what do I mean? According to wiki they classify it as (classical) and (modern). But it still has multiple definitions and meanings. It's not closed minded to be precise in the use of words. No, it isn't. It is close-minded to ignore the connotations of words, and the complexities of meaning that words and sentences can have. What if you took the constitution "literally" (going based just on the words themselves) at the "right to bear arms". Well there are a number of issues here. Which bear does the constitution seem to be referring to? the animal? Do we have right to "bear arms" or to wield or hold "arms" which arms? your limbs? We use context to discover exactly what the meaning of those words are. But even then lets take that sentence into its literal meaning... can everyone own a gun period? Can't I have any kind of gun I want? I'm exaggerating (obviously :D) to show that we can't just rely on the words themselves to provide definition for us. We need context and people to analyze words to gather meaning. The connotations that "drum corps" has today are far more complicated than the actual meaning of the wood. The local word police here on the use of the name 'Bluecoats' should attest to that. Again, if you can produce one iota of proof that Drum Corps is in ANY way unique from Marching Band I'm all ears. Note, this must be TANGIBLE, not "the experience" etc. Something ANYONE inside and outside can point to and say, "Hey, that is not in ANY marching band I have ever seen and it's in every corps!" It's not what's IN a drum corps that matters It's what a drum corps "DOES!" no marching band tours the country for as long or as far as marching band, no marching band performs at the quality of drum corps, Drum corps are not affiliated with schools or universities, drum corps are audition only corps where people from all over the country and world join, drum corps are non-for profit entities.... etc... I see difference. But just not the ones you were hoping for I guess. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mello Dude Posted January 3, 2011 Share Posted January 3, 2011 charlie 1223 what is interesting is that you think the categories of art created "art", and not the other way around. Do you think someone who made the first cave painting said... "I am going to make a painting"? Do you think Pablo Picaso said. "I think I'm going to make a style of painting called Cubism"? The names came AFTER THE FACT. We use the names to describe things after they happened just for the sake of categorization and language. I honestly have no idea how you came to the conclusion that I think sculpture and painting are the same thing. Precisely my point about the term "drum corps". charlie1223No, it isn't. It is close-minded to ignore the connotations of words, and the complexities of meaning that words and sentences can have. What if you took the constitution "literally" (going based just on the words themselves) at the "right to bear arms". Well there are a number of issues here. Which bear does the constitution seem to be referring to? the animal? Do we have right to "bear arms" or to wield or hold "arms" which arms? your limbs? We use context to discover exactly what the meaning of those words are. But even then lets take that sentence into its literal meaning... can everyone own a gun period? Can't I have any kind of gun I want? I'm exaggerating (obviously :D) to show that we can't just rely on the words themselves to provide definition for us. We need context and people to analyze words to gather meaning. The connotations that "drum corps" has today are far more complicated than the actual meaning of the wood. Actually, words used in context have meaning. Again, you are making my point for me. YOU and others are making this complicated because you refuse to accept "drum corps" (in DCI today) is no longer a sub group of a "brass marching band" but rather IS a marching band with no special name that can be attributed to it. charlie1223It's not what's IN a drum corps that matters It's what a drum corps "DOES!" no marching band tours the country for as long or as far as marching band, no marching band performs at the quality of drum corps, Drum corps are not affiliated with schools or universities, drum corps are audition only corps where people from all over the country and world join, drum corps are non-for profit entities.... etc... I see difference. But just not the ones you were hoping for I guess. I can find quite a few maching bands that play and march as well as some wc corps. Some Wc corps most certainly tied at the hip with school musical programs..don't be silly. Schools, for the most part, are non for profit. Universities have people come from all over the world to audition to be in them as well. What if a corps doesn't travel a lot for touring..does it make them less of a corps? What if a corps doesn't perform as well as some top BOA bands..does THAT make them less of a corps? The only REAL thing that makes most marching bands different is they actually have to learn more than 8 minutes of music to play in less time. Where you see difference I have seen in BOA for years...voice being one. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
charlie1223 Posted January 3, 2011 Share Posted January 3, 2011 I don't know anything about playing a marimba, nor did I claim to, nor did I even mention a marimba in my post. I do know something about playing a trumpet, having played that instrument in a dozen or more different contexts. In each of these situations, I have had to adjust my playing technique on the instrument--to a greater or lesser degree, depending on the setting. Playing lead in a jazz band requires a radically different approach to the instrument than playing second trumpet on a Beethoven piece in an orchestra--perhaps, even, different equipment. There are probably a lot of instructors in the classical and concert band worlds that would be horrified by what is considered to be the "correct" approach to playing lead trumpet in a big band, as compared to what they teach the trumpets their ensemble. Does that make them right, and the jazz band guy wrong? I don't think so--different and correct approaches for different situations. I would expect the technique for playing a marimba in a 50,000 seat football stadium in a drum corps to be different than the technique for playing the same instrument in a 1,000 seat concert hall in a wind ensemble. Just like all the other instruments in those ensembles. That is all. But I've explained to you that what you "expect" is not necessarily true (just reread my other post). It's different IN STYLE, but not necessarily in approach. The way you play marimba in drum corps (technique wise NOT stle wise) is perfectly acceptable in concert playing, but in some cases the way you play in concert percussion may NOT be acceptable in drum corps. (but still may be acceptable) Amps make the technique (not style) used in drum corps "less" different than the concert world. And make it more appropriate for the pit to be outside and with the rest of the ensemble. Drum corps kids haven't been "off the streets" kids in forever. I was one of those middle class music major types. But when I walked in the room and they handed me a two valve G bugle, I rightly assumed that things were going to be different. Why is it bad that they did things differently from my h.s. band? I learned a ton (and different things) from both. Isn't that why kids do different things? It's not bad! Who said it was bad? I'm just relying things I know that "people" think its bad. I don't even know why they switched to Bflat and this is going in "that direction" again... I'm just telling you that drum corps has probably gained even more appeal from kids because of the idea that it can make them better at an instrument that they can use outside of drum corps. Being in drum corps now helps you become a better concert trumpet player, and jazz muscian, and marimba player. Now, it does, but I don't think that was always true. I would hate to think that today's kids aren't flexible or open-minded enough to learn and apply different techniques and ideas. If that's the case, they will have a hard time as professional musicians. It has nothing to do with the kids. college directors often do not allow their students to do drum corps because they feel it will hurt their development as a musician. This is true (that college directors say this). AND I know many kids that do not do drum corps because they also feel the same way. Also, professional musicians don't get paid to be in drum corps... professional drum corps donsn't exist... yet. BTW, I prefer my drum corps loud and raucous, it was one of the reasons I signed up! Cool beans man. I don't know that this is a fact. A universal hard fact? idk. But something I know to be true in some cases. I'm aware that many drum corps have closely aligned themselves with the concert band world, in fact many of the instructors split time between the two. I am not necessarily a fan of the results that this marriage has produced, so you may have a hard time convincing me that it's a good thing. Well, 50% of marriages end in divorce so you may get your wish. But I'm not asking you to change your opinion, just that you understand the different aspects of the story. That's it. I also have a pretty wide palate of sounds that I would consider "good sound", depending on context, so perhaps we are involved in a fundamental difference in philosophy where music is concerned. Is there one "correct" technique to playing an instrument? I'm not sure there is. No there isn't. There isn't a single way to do anything. But, you've gotta pick one and master it. When the judges judge technique they are necessarily looking for certain way of playing. They are just making sure that everyone is doing the same thing. Drum Corps themselves use a NUMBER of different techniques to produce what they do from the way they march, to how they hold the sticks mallets, tossing, everything, is different within each corps. So, there isn't a single way to do it but each corps has its own specific way of doing. Not in the least. I was one of those kids, after all. okie dokie Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
charlie1223 Posted January 3, 2011 Share Posted January 3, 2011 Precisely my point about the term "drum corps". Actually, words used in context have meaning. Again, you are making my point for me. YOU and others are making this complicated because you refuse to accept "drum corps" (in DCI today) is no longer a sub group of a "brass marching band" but rather IS a marching band with no special name that can be attributed to it. Wait is THAT what you're arguing about!? LOL!!! "What's in a name? That which we call a rose By any other name would smell as sweet." I can find quite a few maching bands that play and march as well as some wc corps. Me too! It's amazing. I think AVON IS TOTS THE BEST!!! Some Wc corps most certainly tied at the hip with school musical programs..don't be silly. which ones? How? HMM?? Schools, for the most part, are non for profit. And you know what come to think of it... the continents are all just really big islands... Do you even know what a non for profit is?!?!?! Talk about the meaning of words... sheesh! Universities have people come from all over the world to audition to be in them as well. What if a corps doesn't travel a lot for touring..does it make them less of a corps? It makes them a lame corps... duh... What if a corps doesn't perform as well as some top BOA bands..does THAT make them less of a corps? The only REAL thing that makes most marching bands different is they actually have to learn more than 8 minutes of music to play in less time. Where you see difference I have seen in BOA for years...voice being one. Lol honestly this argument is humorous. I have no idea what your even trying to prove. That drum corps is marching band? Okay, it is. Happy? I think anyone who is anyone will tell you drum corps is just "summer band" with no woodwinds. LOL!!!! We are all band dorks... Are you scared yet?! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mello Dude Posted January 3, 2011 Share Posted January 3, 2011 (edited) Wait is THAT what you're arguing about!? LOL!!! "What's in a name? That which we call a rose By any other name would smell as sweet." BOA for all! Glad you agree. which ones? How? HMM?? And you know what come to think of it... the continents are all just really big islands... Do you even know what a non for profit is?!?!?! Talk about the meaning of words... sheesh! http://www.yea.org/site/PageServer Not For Profit SchoolsMost private schools seek 501©(3) status from the IRS once they have incorporated. This is the non-profit status which exempts the entity from federal, state and local taxes. It also permits the school to accept contributions which are in turn tax-deductible to the extent provided by law. ..you were saying? It makes them a lame corps... duh... ..and corps lame marching bands. Lol honestly this argument is humorous. I have no idea what your even trying to prove. That drum corps is marching band? Okay, it is. Happy? I think anyone who is anyone will tell you drum corps is just "summer band" with no woodwinds. LOL!!!! We are all band dorks... Are you scared yet?! I'm not scared of the term marching band. Quite honestly to get you to admit it is a great step forward! You should be proud! Good job! Edited January 3, 2011 by Mello Dude Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HockeyDad Posted January 3, 2011 Share Posted January 3, 2011 C'Mon, Mello Dude and Charlie. That's a lot of reading. Could you two please shorten up your arguments for those of us with challenged attention spans? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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