Hrothgar15 Posted December 26, 2010 Author Share Posted December 26, 2010 (edited) Don't hold your breath. No one is going back to bugles. Ever. Thankfully. Enjoy your recordings - I'll enjoy some great live drum corps! That's not to say that in 40 years, someone won't break out the original tooling, start making G horns again, and have ensembles use them. I mean, it already happened once, decades ago...companies researched and developed a new make of G bugles. There's nothing inherently "era-associated" with a certain type of instrument, just the environment at the time. The success of high school marching band in the past 20 years has been enormous--hence, corps now use high school marching band instruments. But if society, education, the economy etc., are different in a few decades, who knows? Edited December 26, 2010 by Hrothgar15 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hrothgar15 Posted December 26, 2010 Author Share Posted December 26, 2010 Don't hold your breath. No one is going back to bugles. Ever. Thankfully. Sounds like you really didn't like their sound. Doesn't it puzzle you, then, that DCI resisted moving away from them for 27 years, going so far as to creating valved G bugles, and G extensions, and 3-valved G bugles, or what-have-you, just to stay with G horns? To maintain a specific, unique sound? It would puzzle me. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
charlie1223 Posted December 26, 2010 Share Posted December 26, 2010 (edited) That's not to say that in 40 years, someone won't break out the original tooling, start making G horns again, and have ensembles use them. I mean, it already happened once, decades ago...companies researched and developed a new make of G bugles. There's nothing inherently "era-associated" with a certain type of instrument, just the environment at the time. The success of high school marching band in the past 20 years has been enormous--hence, corps now use high school marching band instruments. But if society, education, the economy etc., are different in a few decades, who knows? I agree. There could be cyclical process to those thing. (But I wouldn't call the instruments corps use as "marching band instruments") People should in no way be "against" bugles in drum corps. If you're okay with singing and woodwinds then for goodness sakes it should be okay for a corps to march all bugles! lol! Corps should do what they want. IF a corps decides to march bugles for a year for old times sake then more power to the corps. (but I guess I'm lucky enough to have a very wide set of tastes) Edited December 26, 2010 by charlie1223 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hrothgar15 Posted December 26, 2010 Author Share Posted December 26, 2010 I agree. There could be cyclical process to those thing. (But I wouldn't call the instruments corps use as "marching band instruments") OK...so they're "drum corps instruments" when a corps uses them, yet when they sell those instruments to a marching band, then can I call them "marching band instruments"? 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mello Dude Posted December 26, 2010 Share Posted December 26, 2010 Facts and data that do nothing to support your assertion. Unless you can show what corps actually pay for their horns, you are not proving anything about prices. Same with your DB meter 'fact'. Unless you have factored in all of the possible variables, just taking readings with a DB meter shows nothing. Were you in the same position for all of your readings? Were the corps set up in exactly the same position for all of your readings? Were there an equal number of members on the same instrument voices in all of your readings? Do all of the corps staffs teach their corps to play with exactly the same dynamic levels? etc.... MikeD, do you think every corps gets a deal like BD? I went out, found some comparative price sheets to support MY assertion. Interesting how debates require facts to support one's assertions, try it sometime. This is why I challenge you, that repeat mantras, to do your OWN testing. I did mine, but no matter what I say or did, you would find a flaw or disagree without facts or data to support your position. You also added a straw man into the argument about teaching. It's pretty simple, you get one-five players and test on both using the same players and mouthpieces at different ranges at extreme volume levels. My tests were on Trumpets and Sopranos, they were Bach Strad, Yamaha Marching Trumpet, and Gold plated Getzen 3003 (aweome horn BTW) vs Olds V/R Chrome, 2 valve King and a 3 Valve DEG. Luckily I have access to all kinds of brass of both types, FYI the 2 valve was loudest by quite a significant margin..especially at a distance. All 3 G bugles were louder than their counterparts, both in perceived a(blind test) and Db meter. I did my due diligence, have you and others claiming otherwise? Hell, I would LOVE to compare the projection quality of Mylar vs Kevlar someday as well. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mello Dude Posted December 26, 2010 Share Posted December 26, 2010 OK...so they're "drum corps instruments" when a corps uses them, yet when they sell those instruments to a marching band, then can I call them "marching band instruments"? Absolutely. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
brassEXPERT Posted December 26, 2010 Share Posted December 26, 2010 OK...so they're "drum corps instruments" when a corps uses them, yet when they sell those instruments to a marching band, then can I call them "marching band instruments"? Actually they are neither specific drum corps instruments nor specific marching band instruments. Specifically, each company labels these instruments under a sub category called "Marching Brass" in which the products are geared towards being sold to high school marching bands, college marching bands, and drum and bugle corps alike. With few exceptions, like the trumpets of many of these premier marching instrument companies, the instruments are all specifically designed for the marching arts. Although some might call the Bb trumpet a band instrument, it does often have its uses in the orchestra and has a unique, darker tone quality that a C trumpet cannot replicate. These are all just instruments, instruments geared towards a specific purpose, just as G bugles were geared towards, but not exclusive, to Drum and Bugle Corps of the early generations. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chris ncsu Posted December 26, 2010 Share Posted December 26, 2010 I hate this thread. But I appreciate civil discourse. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
corpsband Posted December 26, 2010 Share Posted December 26, 2010 It is...I've sat as far down as the 20 yard line and had no issue hearing all elements of the corps in attendance. I know what I heard and didn't hear. I know what I heard in outdoor venues too. I'm far from alone in voicing my concerns. You're both just being argumentative for the sake of....DCP ?? Clearly speakers are directional. I think Mike will agree. Clearly the sound does not disappear entirely as you travel away from the center. I think Jeff will agree. I think the experience *has* changed in that the directionality is now more pronounced than ever. OTOH drum corps has always been very directional (thus the premium $$ for those center seats). A great place to hear this is JB Crum. The difference as you travel side to side can be quite amazing. Sure you can hear just fine in the 30's but if you're sitting near that center rail you will be (depending on the corps) feeling the sound instead of just hearing it. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
brassEXPERT Posted December 26, 2010 Share Posted December 26, 2010 Fashion is pretty different than music. You're not going to see anyone come out next week with a brand new composition of Baroque music, that era is done and gone. Same with G. It's over in DCI, it won't be coming back. On the contrary, there are many composers that write in older styles because they enjoy the certain unique qualities. Fashion is very similar to music in that there are fads, and fads pass, but there will still be some people that will hold on to the different styles because they are what speak to them. Not to try and relate fashion or music fads to the G or Bb debate, but the progression from valve-less through single and multi valve bugles to finally reach the inclusion of Bb horns represents trends within the activity. G as a whole will not come back in DCI ever, that I can agree with. But look at 80's music. Listen to a Madonna song, and then listen to a Gaga song and tell me that there aren't similar qualities. Pop musicians and song-writers have found very marketable qualities in 80s music that they have decided to bring back, and thus created this new generation of highly electronic music that is a further development of the original 80's sound. You are right about DCI as a whole, no doubt, but there is some merit to the argument that a corps might bring back Gs for a season for the sake of bringing back the Gs or another drum corps circuit eventually forming in the far future that will use exclusively Gs again, not because of any other reason than to have that specific sound. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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