WHY?

[N.E. Brigand]

I sympathize with this position. But my take on it is that the synth can be as wonderful to hear as Cindy playing her trumpet or baritone or whatever. It's not a computer, there is a person playing that too.

A person for whom volume control requires no real effort.

Cool, me too. I agree it is more impressive. The best part is that you said Phantom '08. My point was that designers have choices and those designers chose NOT to use a synth. Wonderful! Drum Corps is such that every corps doesn't need to approach the show the same way. One corps may not use synths to create marching troop sounds, and another might. But the point is that both can happen and we've seen, it does not mean designers will always use the synth/ sample to create those effects. Sound effects don't have to be used just because they are impressive to create.

Did any corps use synthesizers in 2008? Were they even allowed that year? (I just went through Jolesch's percussion photos for the 2008 and 2009 Blue Devils, likely to lead the way in "innovation". I didn't see a synth in the 2008 photos --my favorite of the past four years' BD shows, despite some overamplification in the pit-- but it does appear in the 2009 photos.) If not, I'm not sure your point stands.

I'm going to try another sports analogy (one I mentioned in passing earlier). Think of drum corps as being like the high jump. The goal of the high jump is to loft oneself over the bar -- under one's one strength. The goal of drum corps is (or ought to be, in my opinion) to create a big beautiful sound -- under one's own strength. Adding electronics to drum corps is like adding a trampoline to the high jump. Sure it makes it easier, but it takes away the challenge.

Or try this: once hologram technology is sufficiently developed, the guard will be able to appear to be tossing hundreds with their rifles. What's the difference between that and electronic music, in which the corps can create any sound at all, as loud as they want, with very little effort?

Edited January 6, 2011 by N.E. Brigand

[Jeff Ream]

What did George actually say; I mean what was his actual quote and the context. My mind might be getting fuzzy, but I don't remember when this happened. And if he did state that legacy fans were not the target audience, could it be because to grow an activity or organization typically targets those who are not yet on board? I typically don't get targeted mailings to join an organization of which I'm already a member. Fans who have bought tickets before already get the mailings from DCI and they know about DCI.org. Potential fans are more likely to not know so much about DCI and consequently are targeted to help grow the organization and the activity.

Granted, there's a feeling among a certain percentage of fans that feel disenfranchised. How might one suggest they are reached to know that they are vitally important to DCI's viability? Can the minds of some who feel disenfranchised be changed by targeted output from DCI?

In short, how do we turn a negative into a positive and keep everyone—legacy and new fans—happy?

that's the million dollar question. Tho I think, looking at more than a few trends, a few steps backwards may be the way forward

[Hrothgar15]

The best part is that you said phantom '08. My point was that designers have choices and those designers chose NOT to use a synth. Wonderful! .

No! Wrong! Synths weren't allowed until the 2009 season (ever wonder why it took so long?). Did you hear Phantom's use of synth last year? Physically nauseating at times.

[Jeff Ream]

I really would like to see some actual study of this on DCI's part. Lots of people who love DCI/drum corps will tolerate such things right now because they as fans are still on the fence, or they get most of what they really enjoy from enough other corps right now. But really: they love it? Lots of them?

The trend I have seen on DCP at least seems to be something akin to this:

Lots of people tolerate it

A few people enjoy it

Many others really don't enjoy it at all

So, maybe it's time for a DCP poll as a start!

DCP is a small part of the DCI universe tho. if DCI wants to know, they really need to contact everyone on their mailing list

[Michael Boo]

...

Or try this: once hologram technology is sufficiently developed, the guard will be able to appear to be tossing hundreds with their rifles. What's the difference between that and electronic music, in which the corps can create any sound at all, as loud as they want, with very little effort?

Holograms would allow corps to create their own indoor (and safe) fireworks, working around the ban on pyrotechnics. But holograms are more effective in darkened light conditions. So, we'll have to figure out a way to let corps have control over the stadium lights, provided there isn't enough ambient light from the natural lighting condition at the time to subvert the effect. Therefore, I believe holographic effects, for the foreseeable future at least, will still rely on non-electrical means to achieve the proper and desired impression. As for guards being able to toss hundreds with their rifles, said acoustic rifles would have to be hidden to keep the effect, uh, effective. Seeing both the non-electronically altered rifle and the holographically enhanced rifle at the same time would cause confusion amidst the fans, especially within their cerebral cortex region that governs logic. The eyes would want to look at both at the same time and wouldn't be able to figure out the visual conundrum. Also, if extreme care isn't taken to isolate just the rifle, it might appear that the rifle tossers are themselves spinning around quickly. This could induce sensations of vertigo in the audience. If the collective brains of the fans attempted to make the spinning rifle bearers stay stationary, then the rest of the corps itself might appear to be spinning out of control. Drum corps would become one big Moiré pattern. Granted, that might be a desirable effect if Blue Devils were to do a show titled, "Constantly Risking Moiré Patterns Through a Glass, Darkly" or if The Cadets were likewise to perform, "This I Believe, The Pursuit of Moiré." Holograms may well be the next big wall to fall.

[Jeff Ream]

I find myself sympathizing with this point. Filling power moments with goo is not a good thing. This can be fixed without throwing all the other good things out however. If fans can hear that it's goo rather than brass so can the judges. If goo is too liberally used, it will cost you points in ensemble. If goo is at a level where you're not sure it's goo -- then that's ok :-)

OTOH if you're in a pit feature, the brass is doing drill, and the keyboard is playing a slap bass patch -- that's seems ok to me.

These sorts of judgments should already be happening. A balanced ensemble sound is a balanced ensemble sound -- electronics or not.

but it isn't. why? because no one wants to be that elephant in the room.

"hey Gibbs, had to nail ya tonight...too much goo...sorry, 8.7"

see that guy out of a gig fast

[charlie1223]

No! Wrong! Synths weren't allowed until the 2009 season (ever wonder why it took so long?). Did you hear Phantom's use of synth last year? Physically nauseating at times.

Oh... uh... haha... uh... oh look over there a G bugle hornline... *runs and hide for potential back lash*

Woops who can keep track anymore?!

mea culpa..

Edited January 6, 2011 by charlie1223

[charlie1223]

The goal of drum corps is (or ought to be, in my opinion) to create a big beautiful sound -- under one's own strength. Adding electronics to drum corps is like adding a trampoline to the high jump. Sure it makes it easier, but it takes away the challenge.

Well, the powers that be thought drum corps had a different goal because that's not the goal anymore. Entertain and Educate with electronics. That's the new goal.

but don't think its a challenge to get as high as you can with a trampoline? You get higher sure but getting as HIGH as you can on a trampoline is still difficult no? (to use your analogy though I don't really like it)

What I think is fair is for judges to crack down on poorly used electronics. Which includes poorly used effects that use electronics, screw ups, and everything like that. That would certainly take a few springs out of the trampoline. And I think its fair.

Edited January 6, 2011 by charlie1223

[N.E. Brigand]

Did any corps use synthesizers in 2008? Were they even allowed that year?

But speaking of electronica in 2008, here's a question I've been meaning to ask that probably doesn't deserve an its own thread, so I'll toss it out here:

At the end of the Bluecoats great brass feature in "The Boxer", as they start to sing, there's some sort of feedback-like sound, audible on both CD and DVD. Is that a problem with the recording, or a mistake coming from the Bluecoats pit?

[JimF-LowBari]

Woops who can keep track anymore?!

Part of the problem IMO.... DCI keeps making major changes (all key, amps, electronics, whatever else) before they get a real idea of how each change affects the activity. If a piece of of puzzle like attendance, donations, membership takes a drastic change there is no way DCI can say "Oh that was caused by....".

Come to think of it, what has really changed in the DCI world thanks to the changes I listed. Other than upseting some attendees and making it more expensive to run a corps?

Edited January 6, 2011 by JimF-LowBari