dukecornwell Posted January 15, 2011 Share Posted January 15, 2011 (edited) Which brings up another topic... if DCA is so fan driven (compared to the other circuit), then why is it that the "fan favorite" does not win every time? My guess is that the average "popcorn eater" does not require as much to be impressed. Judges are musically educated, usually at a higher level than your average fan. If I was a judge, what Reading is doing on the field would be more entertaining to me than what some of the other groups that are considered more entertaining are doing. Technical finesse and demand will entertain me much more (personally) than how loud or high you can play. I imagine judges fall more into that catergory. The loud and high stuff gets most people (and obviously those groups offer more than just that), but I bet it doesn't get the judges. If you really want the fan favorite to win, then you have to let the fans decide the winner. The unfortunate side to that is that I do not believe the best group will win if we do that... of course you might get more people attending more shows. Thank you for mentioning entertainment in the same breath as " technical finesse & demand". Being entertained is a personal emotion that, I believe, is unique to every individual in attendance. I have much time on my hands now so this is where I start getting in trouble. I propose the following changes should be discussed for the DCA Championships: Replace pr-lims with a technical evaluation in all captions except General Effect, both visual & music on all corps competing. Finals will be evaluated in Effect only with both scores being totaled for the final standings. I see many positive and negatives here, but if you want change this could be a start. One positive that I see is the pre-lim gate will increase because the 1st show is actually worth something. I also see many positive for the Corps as well. Lee, thanks for bringing this up. Edited January 15, 2011 by dukecornwell Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
VOReason Posted January 15, 2011 Share Posted January 15, 2011 Lack of competitive parity? The top 4 corps were separated by less than 3 points. Sounds like a real barn burner to me.... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Roger Ellis Posted January 15, 2011 Share Posted January 15, 2011 The competitive level of all organizations runs in cycles. I remember the years when the Bucs were all but dead and competed at DCA with about 14 horns. I remember about 10 years ago when it looked like the Brigs were going to win every year for the next 35 years and they are now trying to get back on the field next year. I remember when the Erie Thunderbirds seemed to be the only corps that could win the mini-corps championship, and now Star United is on a roll. If anything, the success of the Bucs should motivate other corps to try and rise to their level and defeat them. IMHO, who wins should not be based on parity, it should be based on who is the best. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Donny Drum Corps Posted January 15, 2011 Share Posted January 15, 2011 The Bucs are not unbeatable. BUT...I do miss the early nineties with Empire, Bush, and Cabs going at it nose to nose every weekend...add in Cru, Hurcs, Steel City and Westshore on their particular years and we have a show, ladies and gentlemen. 1989-1996 was a special time for DCA, for me. The Bucs had some years of struggle during this time. Donny Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ajlisko Posted January 15, 2011 Share Posted January 15, 2011 Here's where the discussion gets fun -- what would the leadership of Major League Baseball do if the Yankees won the next 23 World Series in a row? Interesting business issue, no? They would absolutely love it ... no other team contributes in revenue sharing and luxury tax at the level the Yankees do ... some stadiums only sell out when the Yankees play there ... when they prosper, MLB prospers ... as a fan, 23 in a row would give us an even 50 ... I'll be in my 80's by then and happy to enjoy it ... for NYC? - continued sales tax revenue on all the merchandise sold ... for MLB Properties? - all those royalties payed for merchandise sold ... so ... IMO ... a good business issue to deal with ... I am a little confused though with the reference to "parity" in DCA vs. "dominence" (by one corps) ... the same corps have placed 1-2-3 at DCA Championships for the past three years ... beyond Reading, there is parity as other corps are beating each other throughout the year ... the same was true when Syracuse went on their four year reign prior to Reading ... and prior to that Bush's dominence at Championships ... I like some of the posters reference to "parody" instead of "parity" ... interesting Freudian slip ... LOL ... :-) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
drumlaw80 Posted January 15, 2011 Author Share Posted January 15, 2011 (edited) Lots of people talking about how a winning corps deserves to win etc., but no one really answers the question -- what do you do if a one corps keeps winning and winning for many years and the DCA fan base keeps shrinking due to the lack of competition. Do we sit back in the name of "fair competition" and allow our activity to decline and hope that someone else eventually wins? Or is there something else that can be done to somehow introduce competitive parity in DCA, as the NFL has done more-or-less. Frankly, I believe that if the current no-competitive state exists for another few years, The DCA Championships are done as a competitive activity from a marketing standpoint. Arguably, this is the case now. Going into any one of the last five DCA Weekends, did anyone believe that any another DCA corps could have possibly won any of the last 5 DCA Finals? Maybe a few of you did, but you are in the minority ... I sure did not. I thought there was zero chance, in fact. And again, I am not slamming the Reading Buccaneers -- I proudly marched with them, and was a business and marketing consultant for them in 2004, right before all this started. If using the Bucs as the example is too emotionally-charged, imagine the same scenario in the NFL, with the Steelers winning a decade of Super Bowls in a row, and the television audience declining fast. What does one do? Edited January 15, 2011 by drumlaw80 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Shadow_7 Posted January 15, 2011 Share Posted January 15, 2011 Well nit pick the little things. But look at the big picture. 15 open class corps in 2005. 11 in 2010. 26 competing corps in 2005. 23 in 2010. Maybe they keep winning because it's getting easier to win (i.e. fewer competitors). Still think that the 35 minimum was a good change? For me, I'd be happy if there was a local (+/- 500 miles) show where there were more than 2 DCA corps that were "allowed" to compete. But I don't see that happening anytime soon. Meanwhile the last DCA "competition" that happened in my region was 2008. With only 2 corps allowed to compete out of the 7 corps that appeared at it. At least 4 of those non-shriner and sporting a field show. It's kind of hard to get excited about competition when there is none. And it doesn't really matter who wins, they're not in my region and I probably didn't get to see them. Meanwhile, let the best corps (that is allowed to compete) win. In the end there can only be one. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ajlisko Posted January 15, 2011 Share Posted January 15, 2011 Lots of people talking about how a winning corps deserves to win etc., but no one really answers the question -- what do you do if a one corps keeps winning and winning for many years and the DCA fan base keeps shrinking due to the lack of competition. Do we sit back in the name of "fair competition" and allow our activity to decline and hope that someone else eventually wins? Or is there something else that can be done to somehow introduce competitive parity in DCA, as the NFL has done more-or-less. Frankly, I believe that if the current no-competitive state exists for another few years, The DCA Championships are done as a competitive activity from a marketing standpoint. Arguably, this is the case now. Going into any one of the last five DCA Weekends, did anyone believe that any another DCA corps could have possibly won any of the last 5 DCA Finals? Maybe a few of you did, but you are in the minority ... I sure did not. I thought there was zero chance, in fact. And again, I am not slamming the Reading Buccaneers -- I proudly marched with them, and was a business and marketing consultant for them in 2004, right before all this started. If using the Bucs as the example is too emotionally-charged, imagine the same scenario in the NFL, with the Steelers winning a decade of Super Bowls in a row, and the television audience declining fast. What does one do? Reading's win streak is only one component of fan base erosion at Championship Weekend ... a weak economy and rising ticket price contributes ... having the Championship at the same venue for 6 consecutive years contributes ... an aging and apathetic fan base contributes ... the drop out of legacy corps contributes ... many factors IMO ... not just Reading's streak ... and ... again ... it must be pointed out that DCA = the voting member corps ... not some separate entity ... if they are comfortable with the economics of what's going on, then why change what they're doing? ... history repeats itself ... Reading's dominence will end at some point ... and maybe another corps' dynasty will begin ... the expansion that has happened in competition Class and regional logistics is key to DCA's growth ... the influx of new Corps "spreading the word" nationally is a bis positive ... I think that is what DCA should concentrate on ... involving the community base for local shows should be encouraged for show sponsors ... many good ideas recently of opening up pre-show rehearsals to the youth in a "clinic" setting ... many good ideas to tweak the scoring recently ... many good ideas about advertizing and local corps recruiting ... the analogy to pro sports does not hold water IMO for drum corps ... we're a 301c "hobby" first and a "business" second ... :-) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kamarag Posted January 15, 2011 Share Posted January 15, 2011 (edited) Frankly, I believe that if the current no-competitive state exists for another few years, The DCA Championships are done as a competitive activity from a marketing standpoint. Arguably, this is the case now. Going into any one of the last five DCA Weekends, did anyone believe that any another DCA corps could have possibly won any of the last 5 DCA Finals? Maybe a few of you did, but you are in the minority ... I sure did not. I thought there was zero chance, in fact. And again, I am not slamming the Reading Buccaneers -- I proudly marched with them, and was a business and marketing consultant for them in 2004, right before all this started. If using the Bucs as the example is too emotionally-charged, imagine the same scenario in the NFL, with the Steelers winning a decade of Super Bowls in a row, and the television audience declining fast. What does one do? First of all, if there is competitive stagnation in DCA, it's certainly not Reading's fault. That corps started really stepping up it's game in, as you say, 2004. They are doing it right in all facets of the organization...administration, staff (design & instruction), and membership. I agree, it isn't their fault. In order to break the competitive stagnation at the top (that's a PC way of saying "getting your ### kicked by Bucs), one of two things has to happen: 1. Reading has to stop doing what they are doing, and have an off year (or years) 2. Someone else, anyone else, has to really step up their game. Lat year, we had two corps that were in the ballpark (Empire, MBI). If Reading was ever ripe to be upset, it was 2010. But it didn't happen, though many have argued it should have in Prelims. I don't know about you, Lee, but rather than have folks whine about Reading's success, I'd much rather see someone (preferably multiple someones) take a page out of Reading's playbook and do what they are doing...with a solid administration, outstanding design and instructional team, and most importantly (and probably the hardest to achieve) a committed membership. The Bucs didn't win six years running because they had one or two of these three things at as time, they had all three. Additionally, I can't stress the importance of the "committed membership" leg of the triad. Right now, I see four corps with the potential to maximize all three legs of the success triad: Minnesota Brass, Empire Statesmen, Hawthorn Caballeros, Connecticut Hurricanes. Will one or more of them match reading in all three areas, and surpass them in at least one in 2011? Boy, I hope so...I hope several do. That's the only way anyone will catch Reading this year. Simply matching them isn't enough. Edited January 15, 2011 by Kamarag Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
luvscorps Posted January 15, 2011 Share Posted January 15, 2011 I would challenge Lee's basic premise that the 'lack of competitive parity' is the reason for decline in attendance. Perhaps it's the economy. Perhaps people are tired of going to Rochester. Perhaps it's any one of a number of things. I always went to drum corps SHOWS and viewed the competitve aspect as a the motivator to perform well...we get really great entertaining and well-performed shows because corps are motivated to be better by competition - and the fans win - someone said 2010 DCA top to bottom was the best they've seen...that's a good thing. I've never gone to a drum corps show because I'm motivated to see the compteition aspect (like I would for a baseball game). I go to be entertained. And in 2010 I was....in droves. When someone keeps saying "I didn't do it," seems like they're trying to convince themselves of it. Or just stirring up stuff so others can bash...but then again I might be a cynic. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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