garfield Posted March 11, 2011 Share Posted March 11, 2011 (edited) Well a few reasons. 1) is it really needed? especially in todays economic climate, can corps justfiy the expense of a whole new uniform.costume/set of jammies on a football field? 2) tradition. Many of the greatest drum corps shows of all time were created in uniforms considered iconic. Those shows didn't need it, why would this? I mean, when I watch 87, I don't see the West Point look hurting App Apring. and lets face it, tradition wise, as drum corps throws more of it away, you can also see the fan base dwindling. There is some correlation 3) these days, people will always use creatvitiy as a justification for anything new. Really, to be truly creative, you need limitations to allow true genius to show thru. I still laugh at some of the justifications trotted out since 2003 for some rules passages that were a laugh then and proven to be lies since. If a corps wants to spend the money they have (or don't have) to change their unis, I don't particularly care. But in light of the stated intentions of May '10 it doesn't seem congruous that they want to spend their own money on new unis. They seem to want to spends others', too. Just sayin' it's hard to plead poverty when you're so easy with the checkbook. (As much as I hate to do it, Jeff, green plus for you) Edited March 11, 2011 by garfield Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
garfield Posted March 11, 2011 Share Posted March 11, 2011 Through 90 posts I still have yet to see anyone describe what the new uni will look like. Uniforms? Unitards? Jammies? ($1 to Jeff, LOL) Why all the angst until we know? 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
euponitone Posted March 11, 2011 Share Posted March 11, 2011 If a corps wants to spend the money they have (or don't have) to change their unis, I don't particularly care. But in light of the stated intentions of May '10 it doesn't seem congruous that they want to spend their own money on new unis. They seem to want to spends others', too. Lol...these aren't the old days when uniforms cost 500$ and lasted 10 years. Now they cost less than half that, are used a few years (but cost less to wash), and then sold / recycled and hardly any money is lost...especially if they go right back to the old unis next year. Could the corps be more frugal yet...sure, but it's not nearly the financial decadence some make it out to be... 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jeff Ream Posted March 12, 2011 Share Posted March 12, 2011 Lol...these aren't the old days when uniforms cost 500$ and lasted 10 years. Now they cost less than half that, are used a few years (but cost less to wash), and then sold / recycled and hardly any money is lost...especially if they go right back to the old unis next year. Could the corps be more frugal yet...sure, but it's not nearly the financial decadence some make it out to be... true but.....when some of the corps who do do frequent uni changes are some of those most vocal about needing funds...or those complaining that the system they created isn't working, yet schedule themselves coast to coast...or those who complain they need funds yet pass rules allowing more expensive toys... 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
garfield Posted March 12, 2011 Share Posted March 12, 2011 true but.....when some of the corps who do do frequent uni changes are some of those most vocal about needing funds...or those complaining that the system they created isn't working, yet schedule themselves coast to coast...or those who complain they need funds yet pass rules allowing more expensive toys... I've got it! Diapers! (yea, Jeff, you get it) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
charlie1223 Posted March 12, 2011 Share Posted March 12, 2011 (edited) Well a few reasons. 1) is it really needed? especially in todays economic climate, can corps justfiy the expense of a whole new uniform.costume/set of jammies on a football field? The cadets and a lot of corps nowadays are well managed and those corps know what they can afford and what they can't afford. And to them creating a show that gets people excited about their show and entertained can be seen as an investment. If the cadets or any corps for that matter create a show that wins first place, or entertains people, or gets people excited about drum corps, then that's more money from souvies and more people who are willing to be a part of the cadets. We have to realize that the things people do in a show can be considered a form of investment for the future. What you put on the field directly influences the amount of money you make and how strong you will be the following year financially. It's SO important that corps have GREAT shows to help sustain themselves in the future. Any amount of money spent on a show (for uniforms or props or instruments or whatever) is an important investment. As long as a corps creates a product that I find entertaining, I don't care about the means (nor should I because its not my business to worry about how a corps spends its money). That being said, it would be imagined that any amount of money spent on a show is "worth it" and that the creative element is strong enough to have a larger return than the amount of money put in. This is only a matter of judgement. Everyone can pretty much agree that a corps should be as entertaining as possible. However, I don't assume that I've seen everything in drum corps that can be entertaining to me. I know what has entertained me in the passed but I don't let influence what ELSE I can find entertaining in the future. I'm just always open-mind and find that as a result I can appreciate a lot more of modern drum corps. 2) tradition. Many of the greatest drum corps shows of all time were created in uniforms considered iconic. Those shows didn't need it, why would this? Well, considering you and I haven't seen the show yet, we can't make a judgement on whether or not this show "needs" the uniforms or not. And we don't know whether or not the uniform change enhaces the show or not. That's fine if you want to prejudge the show, but I'll just wait till I see the show. I mean, when I watch 87, I don't see the West Point look hurting App Apring. and lets face it, tradition wise, as drum corps throws more of it away, you can also see the fan base dwindling. There is some correlation App Spring was a great show and I agree that the uniform did not hurt that performance. However, you are looking at this in terms of: "if the cadets used their original uniform it would "hurt" the 2011 show." No one is saying this. The cadets could very well have a successful show without having a uniform change. However, there is the possibility that the show could be ENHANCED with a uniform change aswell. Even with the tradition the cadets have, I think the corps (or ANY corps for that matter) has a right to do whatever it feels is necessary to create ENHANCEMENTS to the show. I do not disrespect drum corps tradition. I think its so important that drum corps relates to its historical pass. On top of that I also like it when corps push the envelope, and do something new/different (in general, that comment does not relate to specifics). In the end, I just end up liking what entertains me. 3) these days, people will always use creatvitiy as a justification for anything new. Really, to be truly creative, you need limitations to allow true genius to show thru. I still laugh at some of the justifications trotted out since 2003 for some rules passages that were a laugh then and proven to be lies since. I think movies are incredibly creative and that medium is LIMITLESS. You do not need limits to be creative. You need creativity to be creative. Having limits allows a lot of people to be creative, yes/ It FORCES creativity, yes. But it takes a really creative mind and genius to be creative with a WEALTH of different things at their disposal... To stick out among the rest when your tools are limitless. It takes a naturally creative person to be creative without limits. That is MORE genius because so few people have that kind of potential and can filter their own ideas to create something GREAT. Edited March 12, 2011 by charlie1223 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jerseyboy Posted March 12, 2011 Share Posted March 12, 2011 The CADETS wearing 'JAMMIES " is NOT going to make it for me. This is going to be a train wreck. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GUARDLING Posted March 13, 2011 Share Posted March 13, 2011 Well a few reasons. 1) is it really needed? especially in todays economic climate, can corps justfiy the expense of a whole new uniform.costume/set of jammies on a football field? 2) tradition. Many of the greatest drum corps shows of all time were created in uniforms considered iconic. Those shows didn't need it, why would this? I mean, when I watch 87, I don't see the West Point look hurting App Apring. and lets face it, tradition wise, as drum corps throws more of it away, you can also see the fan base dwindling. There is some correlation 3) these days, people will always use creatvitiy as a justification for anything new. Really, to be truly creative, you need limitations to allow true genius to show thru. I still laugh at some of the justifications trotted out since 2003 for some rules passages that were a laugh then and proven to be lies since. I know I'm going to be sorry asking this BUT 1. If you aren't an alumni ( and I understand the passion behind that) why do you care so much what they wear. Isn't it their choice period! 2. Not sure where you got that concept of lmitations for genius But I can tell you in many artistic worlds there's a school of thought that you LEARN all the rules and limitations then and only then you BREAK THEM. I think hundreds of years have proven that in all art forms. Why not ours!!!! 3. Do you feel that way about WGI percussion. Personally I'm not a drummer so it's nothing more than head bangin noise (keep your dam sticks off the back of my seat ) but i have seen it at championships and much to my surprise I kinda got into it. Yes all the props, costuming, theatrics sets,all of it. 4. I'm totally for tradition, TOTALLY but not for keeping something merely because THATS THE WAY IT'S ALWAYS BEEN. Just my 2 cents 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
salad315 Posted March 13, 2011 Share Posted March 13, 2011 The CADETS wearing 'JAMMIES " is NOT going to make it for me. This is going to be a train wreck. Sweet. If this is as accurate as your other predictions and proclamations are on a regular basis, the cadets show will be fantastic! 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jeff Ream Posted March 13, 2011 Share Posted March 13, 2011 The cadets and a lot of corps nowadays are well managed and those corps know what they can afford and what they can't afford. And to them creating a show that gets people excited about their show and entertained can be seen as an investment. If the cadets or any corps for that matter create a show that wins first place, or entertains people, or gets people excited about drum corps, then that's more money from souvies and more people who are willing to be a part of the cadets. We have to realize that the things people do in a show can be considered a form of investment for the future. What you put on the field directly influences the amount of money you make and how strong you will be the following year financially. It's SO important that corps have GREAT shows to help sustain themselves in the future. Any amount of money spent on a show (for uniforms or props or instruments or whatever) is an important investment. As long as a corps creates a product that I find entertaining, I don't care about the means (nor should I because its not my business to worry about how a corps spends its money). That being said, it would be imagined that any amount of money spent on a show is "worth it" and that the creative element is strong enough to have a larger return than the amount of money put in. This is only a matter of judgement. between you and me...some of the corps at the bottom of the scores pile are the best managed ones with money in the bank. they may sacrifice scores because they don't spend, but they know how to live within their means. and hate to tell ya, but if corps were better managed, why in october were they crying about how the system the put into place is broken? Um...denial?? Everyone can pretty much agree that a corps should be as entertaining as possible. However, I don't assume that I've seen everything in drum corps that can be entertaining to me. I know what has entertained me in the passed but I don't let influence what ELSE I can find entertaining in the future. I'm just always open-mind and find that as a result I can appreciate a lot more of modern drum corps. Well, considering you and I haven't seen the show yet, we can't make a judgement on whether or not this show "needs" the uniforms or not. And we don't know whether or not the uniform change enhaces the show or not. That's fine if you want to prejudge the show, but I'll just wait till I see the show. agreed. And, if you read what I type, I've said I haven't voted yay or nay. I have said I understand why people are upset, and I also see that some people trot out any old excuse to justify change. Did I say the Cadets specifically were? no I didn't. But thanks for putting words in my mouth. App Spring was a great show and I agree that the uniform did not hurt that performance. However, you are looking at this in terms of: "if the cadets used their original uniform it would "hurt" the 2011 show." No one is saying this. The cadets could very well have a successful show without having a uniform change. However, there is the possibility that the show could be ENHANCED with a uniform change aswell. Even with the tradition the cadets have, I think the corps (or ANY corps for that matter) has a right to do whatever it feels is necessary to create ENHANCEMENTS to the show. I do not disrespect drum corps tradition. I think its so important that drum corps relates to its historical pass. On top of that I also like it when corps push the envelope, and do something new/different (in general, that comment does not relate to specifics). In the end, I just end up liking what entertains me. what's potentially funny in that watching a car wreck kind of way is what if this uniform change blows up in their faces with the judges? I too respect tradition. I watch the Cadets change the entire activity...in those uniforms. IMo, that's creativity. those uniforms had nothing to do with Mass, WSS or Undiscovered Bernstein...but my god, the wonderful change those 3 years brought to drum corps. some of my favorite stuff of all time, and jeremiah isn't something the average person walks around humming, but I will. I think movies are incredibly creative and that medium is LIMITLESS. You do not need limits to be creative. You need creativity to be creative. Having limits allows a lot of people to be creative, yes/ It FORCES creativity, yes. But it takes a really creative mind and genius to be creative with a WEALTH of different things at their disposal... To stick out among the rest when your tools are limitless. It takes a naturally creative person to be creative without limits. That is MORE genius because so few people have that kind of potential and can filter their own ideas to create something GREAT. Funny...I see too many remakes in the movie genre today, if not in title at least in plot. And between us again, I feel too many of the people pushing for no limits are doing it because they have run out of ideas for what exists. "hey...i'm stuck...what do I write?" "I dunno, what rule can we change to help your writers block go away?" 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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