No more Tour Fee Excuses

[MotoSurfBass]

Question: What are you going to do when most members march for little to no dues, or for free, and Surf is not able to collect funding in "arrears" through fund raising?

The idea is not that people can directly "name their own price," per se. We'd expect people to pay as much as they can out of pocket to lessen the amount that they have to raise. Obviously, as a corps that stresses teamwork, we're looking for people who not only can play, but who work with others and show responsibility. You wouldn't expect a kid who says "I'm only going to pay $1 and not try to make up the rest with fundraising" to be a responsible person and as such wouldn't want him in your corps. Our point is that we will take those who are willing to put in the work, even if that means we are still undersized. We will march a very small corps with everyone paid for before we march a full corps with half the members not paid for.

[MotoSurfBass]

Instead of presuming jealousy on the part of the kids who pay full price, imagine instead that they see a very talented musician who can't afford the fees up front and are willing to "share" their fees in order that he/she can march with them. Remember that Surf is not a full-tour corps. The kids who march there surely are among the most dedicated, knowing they'll likely not contend for a medal, and won't have a full tour.

Above all, Jacobs and staff demonstrate yearly that their goal is to provide the experience to kids who usually have to choose between working and marching. IMHO, Surf needs accolades and support - not finger-pointing at obvious potential problems - to keep their model open to kids who otherwise would have no choice but to work instead of march.

When a bus breaks down the stronger ones get behind and push without regard to who's not quite as able. That lesson is as much evident in Surf's model of developing its kids as is playing for a trophy.

Just my .02, but I sure don't want to be the one standing in front of the bus and pushing the other way...

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I can't stress these points more than enough. Many people assume that most members would be upset at the idea of letting in members come in late for less money. We see it as new friends that can help make the corps better LONG before we see dollar bills. I know Surf won't medal. I know they won't make Finals this year (doesn't mean I can't dream). However, the experience is what matters to me right now, being a vet that instead of learning the ropes of DCI life, can share and help other newbies with that same life.

[2000Cadet]

Seems to me that with enough fundraising activities that need bodies to do well - raffles, door-to-door in the neighborhood, pankcake breakfasts, car washes, etc - that a hard-working staff and volunteer group could use the kids' efforts to raise what the kids can't pay.

And in Surf's model, it sure seems like a great way to get all the kids pulling for each other to reach a goal beyond just a trophy. I think the teamwork effort would pull the kids together for a common cause of getting talented kids in who would otherwise consider the money to be too much of a barrier.

"Sweat equity" comes to mind.

Would you sponsor a kid at a buck a car in a day-long car wash-a-thon?

I think it's a great idea that takes the emphasis off money and puts it on pulling together for a common cause and for those less able.

Isn't that a key tenet of marching drum corps?

I say "Yay" for Surf for putting the emphasis on teamwork instead of a trophy.

With all due respect, come off it. This IS a competitive activity.

I commend surf for trying this out and I'm hoping it works out. Maybe it'll be a model for the future for other corps.

We shall see though.

[garfield]

With all due respect, come off it. This IS a competitive activity.

I commend surf for trying this out and I'm hoping it works out. Maybe it'll be a model for the future for other corps.

We shall see though.

Wait. First you say "Come off it" and then you say it could be the model for the future?

What happened to the "...competitive activity" line? Did you forget it between sentences two and three?

I don't think this will become the model for the future but I'd bet that corps become less and less reliant on tour fees for balancing their budget.

Oh, and competition can equally mean challenging the entire corps to raise funds as much as it can mean competing for a place in the show.

The challenge to "make it happen" can be as equally powerful on a kid as a challenge to make finals.

[charlie1223]

Wait. First you say "Come off it" and then you say it could be the model for the future?

What happened to the "...competitive activity" line? Did you forget it between sentences two and three?

I don't think this will become the model for the future but I'd bet that corps become less and less reliant on tour fees for balancing their budget.

Oh, and competition can equally mean challenging the entire corps to raise funds as much as it can mean competing for a place in the show.

The challenge to "make it happen" can be as equally powerful on a kid as a challenge to make finals.

Then based on your perspective wouldn't it be more fulfilling for those same students to spend their summer volunteering with the American Red Cross in a number of different nations all the around the world? Working together raising money for a cause that we can honestly say is just as or more important than drum corps? I mean, you're making it seem that this model is some how makes the activity "more meaningful". When really, if you wanted kids to learn something outside of "getting a trophy" have them do something completely different, like volunteer in Japan building homes or something like that.

I think you are probably making this program MORE than it actually is. You have to realize that people aren't joining Jersey Surf because they want to "volunteer" and "make it happen". Kids join Jersey Surf to perform a drum corps show for an audience. The ultimate incentive to join the Corps is the SAME regardless of the "program" that is being used to get them in the corps. The program merely puts less financial pressure on kids interested in the drum corps experience. But it DOES NOT devalue the corps ultimate goal of performing a top notch World Class program and it DOES NOT make Jersey Surf the leader in placing "team work" above all other goals.

It's drum corps, man. If you really wanted kids to learn about volunteering, there are probably better summer programs for that. This program is a great way to get kids to join Jersey Surf and experience DRUM CORPS who have financial problems. That's it. And I wish on the BEST for Jersey Surf and hope a lot of people take advantage of this great opportunity to march a World Class corps!

Edited April 3, 2011 by charlie1223

[Stu]

I know that Bob has been a corps director for many years, that is why I phrased my post the way I did with respect toward him; but that does not make his plan any better in a "business" sense. After reading these posts I now realize why many corps' go financially belly-up. Love, Kindness, Compassion, Desire, Want, Hope, all of these are wonderful... except "none" of them buys food, fuel, insurance, or equipment. The "primary" responsibility of the director should be to first establish a solid financial foundation for the well-being of the kids, and that first and foremost means the Financial well-being of the organization Must take priority above all else. A broke, poor, financially strapped person or organization cannot look out for the best interest of kids and provide them with proper food, housing, transportation, or equipment while promising them "Name Your Own Dues and go on this wonderful performance tour" and we will help you raise money along the way with selling kool-aid on a street corner. The best way to help those in need: Help raise the funds for financially strapped kids "first"; then and only then promise them the tour and performances. The corps staying in the Black is actually looking out for the best interest of the underprivileged.

[GUARDLING]

Stu, with all due respect, I think you fail to recognize that Jacobs has been taking the corps on the road for a lot of years (over 15, I think). He deserves the benefit of the doubt, IMO, that if his plan fails he'll not take the kids on the road with half a loaf of bread or no insurance. He's not a newbie director with only stars in his eyes and a big heart to do good for the kids. He's also a businessman who understands the risks he's taking.

Instead of presuming jealousy on the part of the kids who pay full price, imagine instead that they see a very talented musician who can't afford the fees up front and are willing to "share" their fees in order that he/she can march with them. Remember that Surf is not a full-tour corps. The kids who march there surely are among the most dedicated, knowing they'll likely not contend for a medal, and won't have a full tour. Because of the nature of the corps and the kids who must balance work and marching, I've heard stories of many of Surf's MM showing up to leave for tour still in their work uniforms (think McDonalds and the like) having just gotten off their final shift before the buses pull out. These kids are determined to march, and they don't seem to fit the mold of selfish-jealousy, while exceptions surely exist.

One other thought: Surf has, I think, a two week break between their tours. Time for many MM's to get in a few more hours slinging burgers, and for staff to crank up the fund-raising machines to get out on second tour. I would also suspect that, if sufficient funds aren't raised, the second tour can - grudgingly - be cancelled.

Above all, Jacobs and staff demonstrate yearly that their goal is to provide the experience to kids who usually have to choose between working and marching. IMHO, Surf needs accolades and support - not finger-pointing at obvious potential problems - to keep their model open to kids who otherwise would have no choice but to work instead of march.

When a bus breaks down the stronger ones get behind and push without regard to who's not quite as able. That lesson is as much evident in Surf's model of developing its kids as is playing for a trophy.

Just my .02, but I sure don't want to be the one standing in front of the bus and pushing the other way...

MAN I would love to see this work for them BUT the # of non paying kids ( very unfair to those who do ) is staggering. I can't tell you how many winter programs fold for this very reason. Hey but he has an answer that noone else does more power to them.

[garfield]

Then based on your perspective wouldn't it be more fulfilling for those same students to spend their summer volunteering with the American Red Cross in a number of different nations all the around the world? Working together raising money for a cause that we can honestly say is just as or more important than drum corps? I mean, you're making it seem that this model is some how makes the activity "more meaningful". When really, if you wanted kids to learn something outside of "getting a trophy" have them do something completely different, like volunteer in Japan building homes or something like that.

I think you are probably making this program MORE than it actually is. You have to realize that people aren't joining Jersey Surf because they want to "volunteer" and "make it happen". Kids join Jersey Surf to perform a drum corps show for an audience. The ultimate incentive to join the Corps is the SAME regardless of the "program" that is being used to get them in the corps. The program merely puts less financial pressure on kids interested in the drum corps experience. But it DOES NOT devalue the corps ultimate goal of performing a top notch World Class program and it DOES NOT make Jersey Surf the leader in placing "team work" above all other goals.

It's drum corps, man. If you really wanted kids to learn about volunteering, there are probably better summer programs for that. This program is a great way to get kids to join Jersey Surf and experience DRUM CORPS who have financial problems. That's it. And I wish on the BEST for Jersey Surf and hope a lot of people take advantage of this great opportunity to march a World Class corps!

Jeez, Charlie. Over-react much?

You put a whole lot of sentiment into my post that wasn't there, then spent a lot of energy debunking what I didn't say.

Don't preach to me, please. I don't need an education on what's important.

Surf's program is directed at kids who want to march drum corps but can't come up with tour fees up front, that's all. Neither I nor Surf's announcement said they get to march for free without consideration for the costs to the corps.

Argue with yourself on the other points that you brought up and I didn't. I'm simply giving credit to a program that is dealing head-on with a problem affecting all corps.

And don't you think the starving masses in Africa, or the poor souls in northern Japan, would get a little ticked if one of their volunteers started banging a drum or blowing a contra at dawn?

Let's keep this in perspective, eh?

[charlie1223]

Jeez, Charlie. Over-react much?

You put a whole lot of sentiment into my post that wasn't there, then spent a lot of energy debunking what I didn't say.

Don't preach to me, please. I don't need an education on what's important.

Surf's program is directed at kids who want to march drum corps but can't come up with tour fees up front, that's all. Neither I nor Surf's announcement said they get to march for free without consideration for the costs to the corps.

Argue with yourself on the other points that you brought up and I didn't. I'm simply giving credit to a program that is dealing head-on with a problem affecting all corps.

And don't you think the starving masses in Africa, or the poor souls in northern Japan, would get a little ticked if one of their volunteers started banging a drum or blowing a contra at dawn?

Let's keep this in perspective, eh?

You said these things:

Oh, and competition can equally mean challenging the entire corps to raise funds as much as it can mean competing for a place in the show.

The challenge to "make it happen" can be as equally powerful on a kid as a challenge to make finals.

Which show that the sentiment I was responding too WAS in your post. You mentioned the power of making it happen was as strong as a challenge to make finals emphasizing that volunteering, and team work in this way are as effective as performing a competitive drum corps show. Which assumes that people want to join drum corps to experience this "power" which is not true. People only join drum corps to march and play music for a crowd. All the other stuff (hardwork, teamwork, etc.) is EXTRA.

Which is why I asked: If you feel corps should emphasize things no related to "getting a trophy" why not do other activities like volunteer for the Red Cross, since that is "just as" effective as going after the challenge for finals. The point was that even though it's a good thing that people are being asked to volunteer for Jersey Surf it is by no means the actual goal that Jersey Surf is running this program. Why exactly are they volunteering? Because they want to support the corps that has the sure fire goal of being the BEST Jersey Surf they can be. By playing and marching their ##### off.

The emphasis is NOT on the "challenge" to make it happen. It's on getting Jersey Surf talented members, so they can really climb the competitive ladder. That's the ultimate goal, and that's no less "powerful" or "meaningful".

I think it's a great idea that takes the emphasis off money and puts it on pulling together for a common cause and for those less able.

Isn't that a key tenet of marching drum corps?

I say "Yay" for Surf for putting the emphasis on teamwork instead of a trophy.

I feel that by congratulating Surf for putting emphasis on teamwork "instead of a trophy" your making this program seem MUCH MORE than it actually is. Where in this program to do read that Jersey Surf no longer cares about doing well competitively as long as they fill their ranks with kids? It doesn't. And where do you find that all the other corps who use a standard method of requiring kids to pay their full dues that they are only after a "trophy". They are aren't! You're making too much of this program and marginalizing corps motivations.

This program is a risk no matter how you slice it. And someone only takes risks if there is the benefit of some reward in the end. The reward is having talented members in the corps, who couldn't march before. (After all, they aren't accepting people who don't have the talent... the goal is likely to accept talented students who just can't afford drum corps). So this program is no more about teamwork as it is about making sure that Jersey Surf is the strongest corps that it can be in 2011. Jersey Surf wants those talented members who can't afford the cost, and this is definitely a way to do that. I'm just putting things in perspective. Jersey Surf IS a competitive drum corps, (THAT is definitely a tenet of drum corps) and this program just makes them MORE competitive, which is absolutely great for them.

This program is JUST a way to help financially strapped kids to march a World Class corps. It's not something trying to change the world or change the emphasis of drum corps.

The emphasis is still VERY MUCH on producing a world class drum corps show that does well competitively, I don't know why you want to make any less of that by saying this program puts emphasis somewhere else.

Edited April 3, 2011 by charlie1223

[soccerguy315]

With all due respect, come off it. This IS a competitive activity.

It's only competitive among small groups of corps though. A few at the top (2-3, maybe 4 occasionally) compete for the title. Everyone else is only competing in their little group (the top few are also only competing in their little group). I'll be sure to change my opinion if a semi-finalist makes a run for the title in the following year though.

Edited April 3, 2011 by soccerguy315