wvu80 Posted June 20, 2011 Share Posted June 20, 2011 (edited) I just read all 47 pages of this topic. My analysis: 1. thank you to the 3 or 4 folks who actually saw the show and offered your opinion. It was fun to see people have honest differences of opinion and no be afraid to say what they thought. I know you guys were tired, so thanks. :) 2. To the drum corps parent who bragged they boo'd the Blue Devils last year; you're an idiot. Please stay home and don't go to drum corps shows anymore if you don't have any more class than that. You are setting a bad example for your kids and the rest of us within ear shot can't stand you. The real fans go to shows to watch world class entertainment, not to listen to idiots boo kids. Do you boo your kid's HS band because they don't play as well you think they should? I rest my case. 3. Please feel free to call me an idiot, because you have full leave to fire back at me since I fired first and I'm sure I deserve it. It won't hurt my feelings, and I'll not reply. Then we can both be idiots, but at least I'll have some class because I cheer and clap for ALL of 'em. It's a pity you can't say the same. Edited June 20, 2011 by wvu80 7 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
roosevelt Posted June 20, 2011 Share Posted June 20, 2011 longer to learn is not the same as harder. Also, I bet a lot of their sets require minimal direction change, and they are more "checkpoints/subsets" in a bigger move. One year when I marched, we had a set that was like 32 counts, with 16 subsets. We had a hardcopy of each subset in our binders. Is that 17 sets? or 1 set? The 220 by itself is not impressive, because there are many ways to count things. if you call that 17 sets, it is not harder than if you call it 1 set. You are still marching the same thing. Go watch one of their shows and you will your answer about step size and direction changes. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
perc2100 Posted June 20, 2011 Share Posted June 20, 2011 Sometimes that is the best plan of action, sometimes it is not. Going slow and making sure you are learning it right helps you get much cleaner, faster down the road. Learning it fast and not learning it the right way could mean you are developing bad habits though which need to be broken with a lot more reps down the road. Or to put it another way, perhaps SCV's staff knows what is best for SCV better than folks on DCP. 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
roosevelt Posted June 20, 2011 Share Posted June 20, 2011 Or to put it another way, perhaps SCV's staff knows what is best for SCV better than folks on DCP. Agreed 100% Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
perc2100 Posted June 20, 2011 Share Posted June 20, 2011 B) Even though the judges see an unfinished product on the field, who knows how many or what points percentage they dock off? Considering that no one actually has a clear answere on this, and if none of the die hards on hear have an actual explanation, that means there probably isnt one, and DCI is issuing no more than a small slap on the hand, we will know this is true, when we find out the scores and find that the 2 unfinished shows will still place in the top 3. I'm sure you're aware that DCI is no longer judged on the "tick system," and thus points are not 'docked.' Also, judges can only judge what is on the field the night they're judging. If a show is clean, effective, and cohesive but is missing the last minute, a judge will still reward them the amount of points/spread the corps deserves. Just because a show is 'incomplete' doesn't mean it isn't superior to other (if all other) corps. C) If drum corps is suppose to be about modeling young adults into better people in the long rung by learning everything that DC has to offer, what does allowing and unfinished product on the field after the dead line has passed teach these young people about meeting there deadlines in real life. I hope that none of these kids are going to their college professor with an unfinished paper and saying to them, "Well I know its not finished, but what I do have done is really good!" that professor would probably laugh at the kid! Its called LIFE LESSONS, and no one can argue the value of learning life lessons while touring with a drum corps all summer, because DC does mold youngins. In my honest opinion, DCI is really dropping the ball on this issue.I hate to quote DCI's own website in use against them but: "Drum Corps and Education The drum corps experience itself provides a multifaceted education. First, there is the music and performance education provided by the corps' staff. Second, there is the life and values education that is attained by participation in an intense, focused effort to achieve excellence. " NOTE: It does not matter to me which corps are doing it, that is why I left out the names of the corps (even though everyone knows who is guilty) because the name doesnt matter, I have very close friends that march for one of them so this is NOT my bashing of these particular corps. Its not the corps fault that DCI is allowing it, and thus taking advantage of it, so to be mad at the corps is just not right. If someone comes to the first show of the season expecting a completed show (and criticizing corps for not being done), they are either naive or WAY too overly critical. It happens, and has been a factor of early season drum corps shows for decades (and is likely to not change anytime soon). There are a myriad of reasons why a show is complete out of the gate, and one thing I think many people don't realize is that even though a corps is moved-in for weeks before their first show, not every member moves in on day one: many of them have other school obligations to complete before they move in, and this hampers a corps' teaching schedule. It is sometimes not logical to spend time teaching drill, only to have to go back and reteach drill for the members who missed the first time. It's all a matter of teaching philosophy: do you throw the whole show onto the field ASAP, and then perform when membership isn't entirely comfortable with most of the show thus resulting in a potentially HUGE ball of dirt for the first week or so of performances? Or do you take your time with the goal of members being comfortable with what they know before moving on to learning the next chunk of drill, thus resulting in an incomplete show that might mean a lower score for the first week or so due to an unresolved concept? Both styles can work with great staff & members, and how a staff approaches teaching the show is entirely up to the individual corps teams. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
perc2100 Posted June 20, 2011 Share Posted June 20, 2011 You mean like a balanced budget, no foreign debt, fighting in other countries for a "good reason", television with actual scripts and actors and ethanol-free gas? Right: why continue to perpetuate teaching strategies that have proven success time and time again? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SCVsopAaron Posted June 20, 2011 Share Posted June 20, 2011 Actually, there were about three corps not in tune with their pit. How does that happen??? It was something like 102 degrees outside????? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AlexL Posted June 20, 2011 Share Posted June 20, 2011 (edited) You could look at the first show as the first draft of the paper / project and DCI finals as the last draft / final presentation. You could also look at this like the kid who races to finish the test and be the first to turn it in, but gets low grades. These are great ways to look at it, and why scoring based on an unfinished show, not penalizing a show for being incomplete, is a problem. In the first example, the rough draft, if you turn in a rough draft, it is expected to have areas to improve, yes. But it is also expected to be complete. That is, it is expected to be a complete first attempt to meet its goals. If you turn in a complete document that just needs improvement, you'll get credit for the rough draft, and that rough draft will be judged accordingly. If you turn in a document that stops suddenly and doesnt even attempt to complete, you will not get credit, you will be marked off for being incomplete. In the second, and even better, example, that of the test, you have two possible examples for those that know they will not be able to both a) finish all the questions and b) answer them all correctly (just as many corps know they will not be able to finish the whole show AND do it as cleanly as they'd like. There are two solutions here. Spend more time on each question, answer more of those correct, and not finish the test, or spend less time, finish the test, but answer a larger % incorrect of those you did answer. In theory the results should be similar, they both lose points in different ways. The problem with drum corps judging (when they say 'judge based on what is there) is, while the corps that finishes their test gets judged on that, and gets more 'questions' wrong as a result (is less clean), the corps that doesnt answer the last 20 questions on the test (those that show up with incomplete shows) gets those questions thrown out and is judged just on those questions they answered, resulting in a higher than deserved score for those corps. Edited June 20, 2011 by AlexL 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BRASSO Posted June 20, 2011 Share Posted June 20, 2011 (edited) These are great ways to look at it, and why scoring based on an unfinished show, not penalizing a show for being incomplete, is a problem. In the first example, the rough draft, if you turn in a rough draft, it is expected to have areas to improve, yes. But it is also expected to be complete. That is, it is expected to be a complete first attempt to meet its goals. If you turn in a complete document that just needs improvement, you'll get credit for the rough draft, and that rough draft will be judged accordingly. If you turn in a document that stops suddenly and doesnt even attempt to complete, you will not get credit, you will be marked off for being incomplete. In the second, and even better, example, that of the test, you have two possible examples for those that know they will not be able to both a) finish all the questions and b) answer them all correctly (just as many corps know they will not be able to finish the whole show AND do it as cleanly as they'd like. There are two solutions here. Spend more time on each question, answer more of those correct, and not finish the test, or spend less time, finish the test, but answer a larger % incorrect of those you did answer. In theory the results should be similar, they both lose points in different ways. The problem with drum corps judging (when they say 'judge based on what is there) is, while the corps that finishes their test gets judged on that, and gets more 'questions' wrong as a result (is less clean), the corps that doesnt answer the last 20 questions on the test (those that show up with incomplete shows) gets those questions thrown out and is judged just on those questions they answered, resulting in a higher than deserved score for those corps. Agree. The problem as I see it is that " incomplete shows " are tolerated and Corps do not suffer placement or score slide as a result of performing a show that is incomplete vs. Corps that have shows that are complete. Judges are intelligent people. They know full well if a Corps show before them is incomplete or not. The only way these incomplete shows get turned around, is if the judging community hammers a few Corps on the score sheets in the first week of the season as a result of an incomplete show performance. Absent that, then Corps will continue to have incomplete shows at this time of year, every year. I do sympathize with Corps that have a few holes in line at this time of year. I do understand that some marchers get out of school later than others, and as a result some marchers have not quite received the practice time neccessary to put them out on the field just yet. But it's a different story with Corps show designers and staff. They've known for months on end when their Corps first shows are scheduled. I have less sympathy for them when their Corps goes out with an incomplete show the 1st week or two of the season. The competitive summer season is already much shorter than it used to be. How much shorter do they feel it needs to be for them, by not being ready now ? Edited June 20, 2011 by BRASSO Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Phirebird Posted June 20, 2011 Share Posted June 20, 2011 Maybe the mods wanna step in and clean up some of the trash on this thread? 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts
Join the conversation
You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.