TubaJon Posted June 19, 2011 Share Posted June 19, 2011 (edited) My 2 pennys about unfinished shows. A) If certain corps choose to put an unfinished product onto the field early season, thats fine, just be willing to swallow the price by not scoring well early on. In the long run, do you think the corps that put unfinished shows out really care about people on here or anywhere else complaining about the unfinished show? No, because finals night, when they consistantly place in the top 3, no one will remember Saginaw TX. They probably could care less if they didnt score in the top 8 range at show one, because in the end, they get the last laugh. DCI is allowing this^^^ B) Even though the judges see an unfinished product on the field, who knows how many or what points percentage they dock off? Considering that no one actually has a clear answere on this, and if none of the die hards on hear have an actual explanation, that means there probably isnt one, and DCI is issuing no more than a small slap on the hand, we will know this is true, when we find out the scores and find that the 2 unfinished shows will still place in the top 3. C) If drum corps is suppose to be about modeling young adults into better people in the long rung by learning everything that DC has to offer, what does allowing and unfinished product on the field after the dead line has passed teach these young people about meeting there deadlines in real life. I hope that none of these kids are going to their college professor with an unfinished paper and saying to them, "Well I know its not finished, but what I do have done is really good!" that professor would probably laugh at the kid! Its called LIFE LESSONS, and no one can argue the value of learning life lessons while touring with a drum corps all summer, because DC does mold youngins. In my honest opinion, DCI is really dropping the ball on this issue. I hate to quote DCI's own website in use against them but: "Drum Corps and Education The drum corps experience itself provides a multifaceted education. First, there is the music and performance education provided by the corps' staff. Second, there is the life and values education that is attained by participation in an intense, focused effort to achieve excellence. " NOTE: It does not matter to me which corps are doing it, that is why I left out the names of the corps (even though everyone knows who is guilty) because the name doesnt matter, I have very close friends that march for one of them so this is NOT my bashing of these particular corps. Its not the corps fault that DCI is allowing it, and thus taking advantage of it, so to be mad at the corps is just not right. Edited June 19, 2011 by TubaJon Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
roosevelt Posted June 19, 2011 Share Posted June 19, 2011 1. Don't ever assume you know how much time and money other people have. YES, this was the only drum corps show some people will see. AND YES, they had no option. and YES the product they saw is not even finished. That sir is a disgrace, and sticking up for them shows how far you have been brainwashed into this BOA happiness that is, "they can just go some other time, they know what they'll get!". Umm, no. Those people paid similar ticket prices to every other person for the other year. That is unacceptable. I don't assume what other people have as far as time and money. All I am saying is this is what happens in early season drum corps and it happens EVERY SINGLE YEAR! Also, if you think the rest of the corps out there are done. You are wrong. I am sure that there are other corps in the G8 that are not done. They just manufactured and ending / bandaided a stopping place in the show. I know for certain that other corps that are Non-G8 corps are planning on doing the same thing, even though they have their first show later. 2. Movie production release dates are set in stone for 250 days. That, sir, is MUCH longer than the set dates for DCI. Nice try, but incorrect. I just googled "movie release" date postponed and got over 6 million hits. I then googled "DVD release" date postponed and got over 4 million hits. This still tells me things sometimes take longer to produce than expected. I could care less if it is 250 days or 150 days, or 2000 days. It takes as long as it takes to make a great product and for an activity that is a competitive one like DCI, they are designing for AUGUST. That is what you clearly do not understand. They do not give medals out for high June. The do not give an award for best start of the 2011 season. It is a marathon, not a sprint. I can't begin to tell you about how many corps have kicked everyone's butt early season and ended up fading hard at the end. I can also list numerous examples of corps who struggled out of the gate and ended up being the fan favorite, or the champion, or both in August. Honestly, I don't really want every corps to be complete in June. If they are then great, but if they aren't then I generally go into "wait and see" mode. I want them to be great in August. I want them to do something new, exciting, and innovative. I want them to push the activity forward, but if they are going to do so, they may need time to experiment with drill, staging, and god knows what else. They don't always get it right the first time. People generally agree that Spartacus in 2008 was one of the greatest / most fan friendly shows of recent times. They were not complete when they came out. They had to rewrite the drill for parts of the show numerous times. They kept sending things back and messing with it until they got it right. In the end it worked and everyone loved them and people on here foam at the mouth about how great and how perfect that show was. Mind you they only beat BD once that season. Finally, I don't think the audience cared that much about the corps not being done. Would they have preferred it? Of course. But I don't think they were outraged and here is why: The only corps that I know for sure that was done at the show last night was SCV and by the looks of them, they are going to finish last on the judges sheets and last in the FAN VOTE. The only corps that we know for sure were not done were BD and Cavaliers and by the looks of it, they will be top two. Cavaliers stood there for the last minute and STILL WON THE FAN VOTE. So, maybe they knew what they were doing after all. 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
roosevelt Posted June 19, 2011 Share Posted June 19, 2011 Just because something happened in the past is no reason to perpetuate it in the future. "This is what we've always done" is not an acceptable justification to continue to do something that is wrong. Yet you want drum corps to do it like they did back in the day.... 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
roosevelt Posted June 19, 2011 Share Posted June 19, 2011 C) If drum corps is suppose to be about modeling young adults into better people in the long rung by learning everything that DC has to offer, what does allowing and unfinished product on the field after the dead line has passed teach these young people about meeting there deadlines in real life. I hope that none of these kids are going to their college professor with an unfinisded paper and saying to them, "Well I know its not finished, but what I do have done is really good!" that professor would probably laugh at the kid! Its called LIFE LESSONS, and no one can argue the value of learning life lessons while touring with a drum corps all summer, because DC does mold youngins. In my honest humble opinion, DCI is really dropping the ball on this issue. I hate to quote DCI's own website in use against them but: "Drum Corps and Education The drum corps experience itself provides a multifaceted education. First, there is the music and performance education provided by the corps' staff. Second, there is the life and values education that is attained by participation in an intense, focused effort to achieve excellence. " You are going to pull the "what are these corps teaching kids about deadlines" routine? Oh please. There are multiple ways to look at this. You could look at the first show as the first draft of the paper / project and DCI finals as the last draft / final presentation. You could also look at this like the kid who races to finish the test and be the first to turn it in, but gets low grades. Corps get rewarded for being done. Corps get penalized for not being done. It is subjective, but so is everything in DCI. Last night I know for a fact that SCV definitely turned in their final project before it was ready. The put their whole show out there. Good for them. It wasn't good and the audience didn't like it. I would have preferred it if SCV would have either put out a little less show and learned how to play what they had out there well or if they would have put out less show and taken a little extra time to design it a little better. They didn't do that. They were done though and I am sure the audience enjoyed their 11 minutes of not playing together or marching well over the 10 minutes that BD and Cavaliers put out there that was presentable. I am sure the fan voting will bear that out.... oh wait. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TubaJon Posted June 19, 2011 Share Posted June 19, 2011 (edited) You are going to pull the "what are these corps teaching kids about deadlines" routine? Oh please. There are multiple ways to look at this. You could look at the first show as the first draft of the paper / project and DCI finals as the last draft / final presentation. You could also look at this like the kid who races to finish the test and be the first to turn it in, but gets low grades. Corps get rewarded for being done. Corps get penalized for not being done. It is subjective, but so is everything in DCI. Last night I know for a fact that SCV definitely turned in their final project before it was ready. The put their whole show out there. Good for them. It wasn't good and the audience didn't like it. I would have preferred it if SCV would have either put out a little less show and learned how to play what they had out there well or if they would have put out less show and taken a little extra time to design it a little better. They didn't do that. They were done though and I am sure the audience enjoyed their 11 minutes of not playing together or marching well over the 10 minutes that BD and Cavaliers put out there that was presentable. I am sure the fan voting will bear that out.... oh wait. Yes I am pulling that "routine" like you said, there are many ways to look at it, and thats how I do. And it sounded to me like other corps besided SCV managed to put out a decent finished product. Edited June 19, 2011 by TubaJon Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BozzlyB Posted June 19, 2011 Share Posted June 19, 2011 NOTE: It does not matter to me which corps are doing it, that is why I left out the names of the corps (even though everyone knows who is guilty) because the name doesnt matter, I have very close friends that march for one of them so this is NOT my bashing of these particular corps. Its not the corps fault that DCI is allowing it, and thus taking advantage of it, so to be mad at the corps is just not right. [/size] I agree 100%. Until DCI comes out with a statement indicating unfinished shows by the start of the season are unacceptable, and guilty parties will receive stiff penalties, then NO ONE has anything to complain about specific to any one corps. If corps are operating within the rules then you can not blame them one bit for anything. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
roosevelt Posted June 19, 2011 Share Posted June 19, 2011 Yes I am pulling that "routine" like you said, there are many ways to look at it, and thats how I do. And it sounded to me like other corps besided SCV managed to put out a decent finished product. You are assuming that those other corps are finished though. Being finished and appearing finished are two different things. Who else do you know for sure was finished? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Plan9 Posted June 19, 2011 Share Posted June 19, 2011 rJust because something happened in the past is no reason to perpetuate it in the future. "This is what we've always done" is not an acceptable justification to continue to do something that is wrong. You mean like a balanced budget, no foreign debt, fighting in other countries for a "good reason", television with actual scripts and actors and ethanol-free gas? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
corpsband Posted June 19, 2011 Share Posted June 19, 2011 You are assuming that those other corps are finished though. Being finished and appearing finished are two different things. Who else do you know for sure was finished? Who cares? I think the point -- they were able to march and play a "complete" (>=10min) show...You're grasping here. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
roosevelt Posted June 19, 2011 Share Posted June 19, 2011 NOTE: It does not matter to me which corps are doing it, that is why I left out the names of the corps (even though everyone knows who is guilty) because the name doesnt matter, I have very close friends that march for one of them so this is NOT my bashing of these particular corps. Its not the corps fault that DCI is allowing it, and thus taking advantage of it, so to be mad at the corps is just not right. I agree 100%. Until DCI comes out with a statement indicating unfinished shows by the start of the season are unacceptable, and guilty parties will receive stiff penalties, then NO ONE has anything to complain about specific to any one corps. If corps are operating within the rules then you can not blame them one bit for anything. Agreed. I don't think DCI will come up with a rule like that though for reasons I mentioned above. If they were to, it would only mean that the corps would find a different way to show that they were not done with the show. They would band-aid an ending in and then change it (ie learn the correct one) later. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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