MikeN Posted June 22, 2011 Share Posted June 22, 2011 That's fine, but bland is pretty unfair, you know? Yeah. More "smooth" than bland, I think. Anyways, to tie this back to SCV, I'm not a brass player, so I can't really comment on technique, but I think the song selections haven't done a good job at allowing them to quite connect with the audience and make us forgive some of the rougher edges. That can be approached from either end, really - a top-notch hornline will make even the most modern of modern music sound interesting to an audience, but also too can a more "mainstream" (oh, that word!) book make the general listener cut the group some slack. Mike Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BozzlyB Posted June 22, 2011 Share Posted June 22, 2011 Pretty much all of them IMO. I do like 2004 though, although it was still lacking in power. That could be completely do to the wind-ensemble-like brass though. Did you see that show live??? 04 Cavies was HUGE sound! It wasn't until the next year or the year after that they forgot what FFF was . Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fsubone Posted June 22, 2011 Share Posted June 22, 2011 what I want to know is how bad a bari player do you have to be to basically be removed from the show as long as that one guy is while dancing around with the guard? Well, he's a section leader, and the top player, so he's pretty good. I'm guessing it was just based on what drill number he was, that's how visual solos have been decided there in the past, not who was best or worst Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fsubone Posted June 22, 2011 Share Posted June 22, 2011 Correct, they were also at the helm of the super quiet Cavaliers lines. Clemmer's exact words in 2001 were "We aren't trying to sound like drum corps loud, we are trying to sound like a wind ensemble here." That's not going to translate well to this show, even if they were top notch across the board. Haha, fun fact for you, that was Andre's exact same philosophy. He yelled at us if we ever did anything that made us sound "drum corps loud". He wanted music, not noise. And Clemmer is the same way. It's the same teaching methods and philosophy. So please, lay off the brass staff. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
emc2 Posted June 22, 2011 Share Posted June 22, 2011 Can Vanguard break into the top 5, or even the top 3 with the show that they have this year? I've seen clips and lot videos and from what I can tell they have a top 3 drumline, a terrible brass line, and who knows about the guard (from what I hear the wind was terrible in Texas). I've also heard the design for the show has great potential. I personally think that if the brass pulls it together and SCV makes their famous "late season push" that they will be able to break the top 5. Thoughts? No not this year. drum line sound good this year. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fsubone Posted June 22, 2011 Share Posted June 22, 2011 Because of this quote right here: That is exactly what bothers me. It is the idea that a group (or in this case, a staff) is not going to "play the game," but they still expect the competitive rewards. I remember hearing those same guys when they were at The Cavaliers telling their members things like "what we do here is so far beyond everyone else..." or "the judges are too stupid to understand what they are hearing," and they would expect to get the competitive rewards even though they weren't playing the game. Now they are teaching at The Christmas Cavaliers, I mean The Cavaliers West, I mean The Santa Clara Vanguard and are doing the same exact approach that they did with The Cavaliers, but with less talent now. I am sorry, it is not going to work. Also, I don't buy into the whole "this is a wind ensemble sound," it's not. It's a Texas high school band sound. Those bands sound great, but they sound nothing like The Marine Band or The Dallas Wind Symphony or The Tokyo Kosei, or The Pershing's Own. Those groups fill up the horns and play with passion. I especially don't buy into it when I hear them say that their model for brass playing is the Chicago Symphony. The CSO brass plays with balls. I used to live near Chicago and have been to my fair share of concerts there and those guys let it rip. They played nothing like how these guys teach how to play the horns. Anyways, just my thoughts.... Do you have something ingrained against SCV? DId they kick your puppy while god-walking or something? Cause it really seems like you're just grasping at straws to bash them. Again I will say it, ANDRE FEAGIN TOUGHT THE SAME PHILOSOPHIES FOR BRASS PLAYING AS DAVID CLEMMER IS TEACHING NOW. Both taught everyone to play with control, not volume. You can do more by playing with dynamics than you can by trying to burst people's eardrums. And it also is part of the arrangements. GO listen to the original music, and tell me if you think it's all DRUM CORPS MUSIC. you know, FFF impacts, loud chords. No, none of it is. It's minimalist and modern. If people can't hang with that, there are 23 other corps out there. There's something for everybody. Me, I see the potential in this show. It's a beast of a show, like Lance pointed out. Most of the show is above 180, up to 200 the whole time. I'm sure most of you guys wouldn't sound perfect trying to play Ligeti while running at 194, but that's just a guess. Once the kids get the show under their feet and fingers, the endurance will come up, and the brass performances will go up as well. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fsubone Posted June 22, 2011 Share Posted June 22, 2011 Because of this quote right here: That is exactly what bothers me. It is the idea that a group (or in this case, a staff) is not going to "play the game," but they still expect the competitive rewards. I remember hearing those same guys when they were at The Cavaliers telling their members things like "what we do here is so far beyond everyone else..." or "the judges are too stupid to understand what they are hearing," and they would expect to get the competitive rewards even though they weren't playing the game. Now they are teaching at The Christmas Cavaliers, I mean The Cavaliers West, I mean The Santa Clara Vanguard and are doing the same exact approach that they did with The Cavaliers, but with less talent now. I am sorry, it is not going to work. Also, I don't buy into the whole "this is a wind ensemble sound," it's not. It's a Texas high school band sound. Those bands sound great, but they sound nothing like The Marine Band or The Dallas Wind Symphony or The Tokyo Kosei, or The Pershing's Own. Those groups fill up the horns and play with passion. I especially don't buy into it when I hear them say that their model for brass playing is the Chicago Symphony. The CSO brass plays with balls. I used to live near Chicago and have been to my fair share of concerts there and those guys let it rip. They played nothing like how these guys teach how to play the horns. Anyways, just my thoughts.... Do you have something ingrained against SCV? DId they kick your puppy while god-walking or something? Cause it really seems like you're just grasping at straws to bash them. Again I will say it, ANDRE FEAGIN TOUGHT THE SAME PHILOSOPHIES FOR BRASS PLAYING AS DAVID CLEMMER IS TEACHING NOW. Both taught everyone to play with control, not volume. You can do more by playing with dynamics than you can by trying to burst people's eardrums. And it also is part of the arrangements. GO listen to the original music, and tell me if you think it's all DRUM CORPS MUSIC. you know, FFF impacts, loud chords. No, none of it is. It's minimalist and modern. If people can't hang with that, there are 23 other corps out there. There's something for everybody. Me, I see the potential in this show. It's a beast of a show, like Lance pointed out. Most of the show is above 180, up to 200 the whole time. I'm sure most of you guys wouldn't sound perfect trying to play Ligeti while running at 194, but that's just a guess. Once the kids get the show under their feet and fingers, the endurance will come up, and the brass performances will go up as well. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GeneralTsoChicken Posted June 22, 2011 Share Posted June 22, 2011 Haha, fun fact for you, that was Andre's exact same philosophy. Cool, I'll ask him on the phone tonight. I can't believe in the 10+ years I've known him that you would understand his philosophy so much better than him or I. 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dcialumni1989 Posted June 22, 2011 Share Posted June 22, 2011 Haha, fun fact for you, that was Andre's exact same philosophy. He yelled at us if we ever did anything that made us sound "drum corps loud". He wanted music, not noise. And Clemmer is the same way. It's the same teaching methods and philosophy. So please, lay off the brass staff. I have worked around or with both Andre and the current brass staff, they are VERY different. Andre marched and taught Phantom and taught Crown. That is a VERY different from what the UH guys do. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WOOHOO Posted June 22, 2011 Share Posted June 22, 2011 I have worked around or with both Andre and the current brass staff, they are VERY different. Andre marched and taught Phantom and taught Crown. That is a VERY different from what the UH guys do. On the particular point of playing loud for the sake of effect or whatever without regard to tone quality (which I think fsubone is getting at), I don't know a brass caption head in DCI who would condone that. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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