jjeffeory Posted July 21, 2011 Share Posted July 21, 2011 no, it's not. there are no threads on here devoted to trashing 70s/80s drum corps. it's difficult to even find posts that contain sentiment resembling that. for the record, i don't like electronics at all, and agree with what a lot of people are saying. There are plenty of threads trashing dinosaur shows.... RAWRRRRR. Those quaint, easy, blatty things.... 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
euphman89 Posted July 22, 2011 Share Posted July 22, 2011 I think it speaks as a testament to the entertainment value of this year's corps that we managed to make it this far in the season without a thread exactly like this. Fire negatives my way if you please, but you can't change the fact that this discussion has been played out almost constantly for the past...5 or so years on DCP. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jwillis35 Posted July 22, 2011 Share Posted July 22, 2011 Frankly, we need to get used to them, because they're not going away, but electronics and amplification really need to be called out when they do NOT work. You make a good point here, and I think this is the key to getting the corps to improve their use of electronics and amplification. Back in 2005 (perhaps even before, I forget when it started), many of us were quite vocal about how amplification was used. Then narration and singing were added, and we again were quite vocal about it. Honestly, there were times I was liking some of the ideas that corps were trying, yet the shows were becoming convoluted and the musical/visual aspects were losing their developmental abilities because more effort was being put into the narration or singing or some effect. Eventually electronics were allowed, but corps cannot sequence anything, they must play their sound effects, piano, bass, synth strings, vox pads, etc., in real time. That part I do agree with. If you're going to use electronic synth, bass, guitar, keys, voice, then it must be a performing member of the corps doing so in real time, just like the percussion or brass. What I would TAKE OUT of this equation is the ability to mimic acoustic instruments. If you want electric bass (and for jazz or rock this is nice and more appropriate that using the tuba), then you must use a real electric or upright bass. Same with guitar. If you want synth, then utilize synthetic textures and do not try to emulate oboe, flute, bassoon, clarinet, or even acoustic strings. I will submit to all that one of the reasons the Cadets' current electronic use is not being overly criticized (I really some still don't like it) is that their use of the Yamaha Motif XF synth is mainly for effects like voice, vox pads, those demonic sounds, and the angelic sounds that they use throughout the show. The organ is also a nice touch (and it would be tough to hall a real one on the field). The other reason is that they made sure the show had enough "meat" in the brass and percussion books, and that the overall theme was not diluted by the electronics but rather enhanced. I would prefer they use a real upright or electric bass gtr for some of the stuff that happens in the opener and the percussion feature. At any rate, electronics and amplification are here to stay as many have said. I personally am growing to like the electronics if they are used well. I still can't stand hearing too much synth string, but I often think it's because some arrangers don't know how to write them into the show, and outdoor synth strings being piped through those big monitors is not always a good thing. I would prefer they use an analog string and just learn how to write for that sound and know when to use it. Overuse the electronics and I know the DCPers and others will again be highly critical of what these corps are doing, and I do believe the corps will make adjustments. Time will tell. This year I am not really having a problem with most shows and their use of electronics. But who knows, next year I may hate them all. Let's see where they take this. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SiriusSoprano Posted July 22, 2011 Share Posted July 22, 2011 I like how young blood thinks electronics sound great in drum corps and calls 70's and 80's fans dinosaurs. No matter what we say, dci will do what they want. It's their right even if most fans hate it. I don't like hearing people say "we have to get used to it" but it's true I guess. 30 years from now corps will allow woodwinds and future fans will call fans of 2010-era corps dinosaurs and tell Them to get used to it and woodwinds are here to stay blah blah blah. Maybe then they will understand how we anti electronics fans feel. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
snowrider Posted July 22, 2011 Share Posted July 22, 2011 Melodramatic intent was on purpose. Although hardly any threads devoted to trashing old school DCI shows there are plenty of trashing posters who comparethe old days with today. (Like the red minuses I get!) I liked the point above that until the judges can properly adjudicate A&E we will not make any progress into incorporating A&E in a more complementing fashion. It is here to stay so we have to live it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bmroth1 Posted July 22, 2011 Share Posted July 22, 2011 (edited) The use of electronics Ive heard this year sucks. Edited July 22, 2011 by bmroth1 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
euphman89 Posted July 22, 2011 Share Posted July 22, 2011 The use of electronics Ive heard this year sucks. Good thing the design of many of this year's shows is superior. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GUARDLING Posted July 22, 2011 Share Posted July 22, 2011 (edited) I like how young blood thinks electronics sound great in drum corps and calls 70's and 80's fans dinosaurs. No matter what we say, dci will do what they want. It's their right even if most fans hate it. I don't like hearing people say "we have to get used to it" but it's true I guess. 30 years from now corps will allow woodwinds and future fans will call fans of 2010-era corps dinosaurs and tell Them to get used to it and woodwinds are here to stay blah blah blah. Maybe then they will understand how we anti electronics fans feel. you are very right although many of the past ( me included ) forget that the memebers of the 50s and 60s felt the same about us when we introduced DCI,no color Presentations, No honor guards, some props, theatrics, useful color guards, themes,a pit, etc etc..now some argue...but we didnt change the drum corps intent...ahhhhhh ok ask someone before you if they feel that way...lol..I suppose like you said its just natural and the natural progression of almost everything. Gezz I remember at the time it was so cool to go against the norm..lol Selective memory is a comforting place....lol Edited July 22, 2011 by GUARDLING Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
skywhopper Posted July 22, 2011 Share Posted July 22, 2011 (edited) I'm totally down with amplification and electronics. I'm also down with the current rules. What I'm not down with is the way they are judged, or more specifically, not judged outside the occasional music effect comment. It's as if the judges receive no training regarding them, and use sheets that make no mention of A&E at all. Until the judging community is effectively trained, and the sheets reflect criteria for A&E integration, it's not going to get any better. It won;t force the corps to actually use the right equipment, in the right way, and overseen by people that actually know and understand outdoor amplification (outside of two or three corps). See all of this is exactly why I think electronics are a bad idea. I don't know what the sheets say about A&E, but in the era of acoustic bell-front brass, battery percussion, and pit instruments, that's a narrow enough range to write some semi-objective criteria for. But when you get into the realm of synths and electric guitars and filters and effects, that's an unlimited range of variation in technique and sound and balance. When things are out of balance, you can't blame the performer because it's not in his control. What does tone quality mean when the designers are selecting the synth patches? If you can fill 10 seconds of music-free movement with one keypress on a synth that triggers a sample that's just as loud as the brass section at triple-F, how do you judge that? Are you judging the "design"? Maybe it sounds great. But what do the performers have to do with it? Next to nothing. It's not just about training whoever judges the electronic voices (who does judge them, anyway?) on all the possible instruments out there, but it's about defining criteria for making a judgment. But that just isn't possible. Also, you mention that you're not going to get good outdoor amped sound without high quality equipment and expert staff. That's a terrible way to spend resources in an activity built around music education. Teaching the trumpets to play and march well is a good use of time and money. Having staff desgin and run a fabulous portable outdoor audio system teaches the kids nothing. Edited July 22, 2011 by skywhopper 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CuriousMe Posted July 22, 2011 Share Posted July 22, 2011 There are plenty of threads trashing dinosaur shows.... RAWRRRRR. Those quaint, easy, blatty things.... I think people see what they look for. Criticism of a specific era, or people who persecute their corps because they are jealous of that corps success...people find what they look for in posts. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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