Audiophile Posted July 28, 2011 Author Share Posted July 28, 2011 I appreciate you mea culpa and attempt to keep this thread going on a positive note. But I'd like some citation of fact on the above statement, and not just anecdotal or here-say evidence. I've never seen any indication by anyone, anywhere that A&E is being judged in any way. For obvious reasons I can't get exactly specific, but actual judges tapes from this year have comments on them like... "mallets sound a bit strident right now, may want to check the miking technique" This is actually a very insightful comment and is a common issue with amplification "synth support is making it difficult to read the brass book in this passage" Another good comment on the judge being aware and evaluating a balance issue with the synth Groups that use electronics more overtly are probably more likely to get those elements adjudicated. Granted there are judges out there who do not have a tech knowledge about the terminology but they are all musicians who can hear an imbalance. It may be that the points deducted for said A&E balance issues are not weighted as say, a brass error. But that will be fixed soon as A&E becomes an integral part of shows, hence an integral part of the adjudication process. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Audiophile Posted July 28, 2011 Author Share Posted July 28, 2011 I tossed this out in another thread, but am curious to get the opinion of the OP if he might respond - would there be value in DCI either mandating speaker number, setup and placement, or DCI simply purchasing the amp/speaker setup themselves and leaving it out there the entire show and just let the individual corps plug in to it? Would that allow for a more "standard" sound check? Mike In a word, no. The pit setups of today are far too complicated with way too many variables from group to group. Not to mention the corporate implications of creating a sound system monopoly with no other choices. Mandating how to setup your PA or what kind to use is a complete violation of the pit arrangers creative freedom. However this year they are trying something different at finals to get rid of the uber-pit mix on the finals DVD's. So while I understand the intent behind your idea, it's just far too impractical. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fsubone Posted July 28, 2011 Share Posted July 28, 2011 He was indeed. But why do we need an Eb clarinet in drum corps? We don't. That's just what the original instrument is. I think their work with the octave divider and filters was amazing. Really sold that solo. Just funny how when most of the people on here were marching, synths were the instrument of choice in the music you were listening to. Don't remember hearing much complaining about that.... (sarcasm alert, it's a joke, don't read too much into it anti-electronics crowd) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jjeffeory Posted July 28, 2011 Share Posted July 28, 2011 Boston played Axel F with synthesizers back in the day and took a penalty for it every time. ...and didn't makes finals until this past decade. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fsubone Posted July 28, 2011 Share Posted July 28, 2011 ...and didn't makes finals until this past decade. That was a DCI conspiracy, and you know it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MGCpimpOtimp Posted July 28, 2011 Share Posted July 28, 2011 (edited) Haven't posted on here in forever, but just wanted to make a few points. *DISCLAIMER* I only read the first two pages of this thread*DISCLAIMER* The mix is indeed aimed for the judges box, and 9 times out of 10 sounds great from there. There are not only audio engineers, but brass caption heads, percussion caption heads, and program coordinators in the box during rehearsals, and they are going to get a balanced sound from where they are sitting. They are some of the best of the best, and to assume that they don't think about electronic balance at all....is just wrong. I can guarantee you that it is a high priority for most staffs. Love it or hate it,getting a balanced blend from 20 to 20 all the way up the stands is next to impossible It has to do with speaker placement, the amount of speakers, and where they would have to be placed (WAY higher that you see now, think about where they are for rock concerts). Not only would this be crazy expensive, but logistically speaking, nearly impossible to set up in 5 minutes, not to mention the pit kids having to lug around MORE stuff than they do now. *puts on flame proof suit because pit kids don't do anything all day anyway* Edited July 28, 2011 by MGCpimpOtimp Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MarimbasaurusRex Posted July 28, 2011 Share Posted July 28, 2011 Actually you would not get an absurd amount of EVERY sound because most of the acoustic instruments are constantly traveling so the sound source, angle of projection, etc is constantly changing. Where as a speaker is set at one angle the whole show and is always shooting the sound from the same place in the same direction. If you're in the path destruction it's a pretty miserable experience depending on the corps performing. The frequency range for most of the Goo is between 60hz-90hz-ish maybe? There is something about Lucas Oil, that vaporizes those frequencies depending on where you're at, especially in the judges area. Maybe it's not a textbook bass trap, but the bass isn't making it upstairs and it builds up like crazy in certain parts of the lower level. In response, sound guys boost the overall level of the subs, and the brown note wipes out the audience and causes wide spread diaper changes. OK, so pseudo science aside... All you've managed to show with this thread is that drum corps is for the judges, only. Nothing new there. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
IntheMood Posted July 28, 2011 Share Posted July 28, 2011 Again I apologized for the title and admitted I failed on that...not sure what else to do with that. This is an expensive activity. Sound equipment and electronics is an added expense, agreed. However you don't buy brand new equipment every year. It's a one-time bulk purchase and then occsaional maintenance and repair/replace with normal wear and tear. The rising cost of gas prices is contributing more to increased fees than the initial purchase of sound equipment for a corps. Plus corporate sponsorship helps offset the cost of the equipment...no one gets free gas. Let's not turn electronics into the black sheep to blame for everything. On that note. A&E on it's own isn't evil. It doesn't want to kill drum corps. The way in which people utilize those tools does occasionally maim drum corps. But even if people do not want to see it, corps ARE getting better and more savvy at the integration of the electronics in their show designs. It's still in it's infancy and I would hope that we can see continued develop to making this something that both spectator and judge can appreciate simultaneously. I've talked to several huge DCI brass arrangers, and all of them were unanimously excited about all of the possibilities. These are people that have provided all of us with incredible shows for decades. If THEY are in support of electronics and their continued use, wouldn't you trust them enough to at least give them some slack for a few years and figure it out. Maybe the next great thing in drum corps is on it's way, instead of living perpetually looking backwards into the great shows of the past. Do any of the anti-A&E folks find anything this year acceptable? Or is the whole year a bag of $%&? To me, I think this is one of the strongest years creatively in a long time. Lots of variety from show to show. I want electronics to stay and be developed, a lot of you want them to go away so to each his own. However they aren't going away, and I do feel like some people may be missing out on some incredible drum corps by boycotting the activity on this issue. And for the record judges CAN and DO make electronics balance comments on the tapes. Most judges are not sitting up their ignoring an obtrusive synth sound. Both GE Music and Ensemble Music captions are currently punishing/rewarding the electronics element. Why do people who agree with A&E keep calling those who do not agree with A&E anti-A&E....If one is going to put a label on us I would like to be labeled PRO-Acoustics...It would be just as easy to call those who like A&E in Drum Corps as Anti-Acoustics.... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
N.E. Brigand Posted July 28, 2011 Share Posted July 28, 2011 Love it or hate it, getting a balanced blend from 20 to 20 all the way up the stands is next to impossible. Well, that just brings us to where we started. It was much easier to balance for the paying customers when there was no amplification. Does anyone actually "love" that fact? 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
skywhopper Posted July 28, 2011 Share Posted July 28, 2011 The fact of the matter is, rather you like it or not, THE ELECTRONICS ARE NOT GOING TO STOP ANYTIME SOON So either you LEAVE THE ACTIVITY or SUCK IT UP BUTTERCUP Whoa, settle down, Mr Cranky. Sure, lots of us would prefer no electronics, but in lieu of that, we at least want not to have our experience ruined by overamped synth. If everyone complaining left drum corps as you desire, there'd be a lot less money, a lot fewer shows, and a lot fewer corps. I hope that we make some difference in show design with our feedback (Bluecoats dropped the "what the hell am I doing here" line thanks to such feedback -- pretty sure Blue Stars moved a synth solo to bari because of it). Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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