zig zig ZAG Posted August 2, 2011 Author Share Posted August 2, 2011 One I don't see mentioned often is field spread (both end zone to end zone and sideline to sideline). It is difficult enough to keep the timing right with everyone playing. Even more difficult is when the melody is passed from front to back, side to side, etc. In the 80's we just hosed the parts like this or limited who actually played when outside the 20 yard line. Today, they clean it. It doesn't get the ooohs and ahhhs like fast and/or loud gets, but the judges are likely to recognize how difficult this can be. Speed up any of those things, i.e. adding visual demand, and add musical demand, do things simultaneously, and every one is MUCH harder, and I'd say, has greater virtuosity and effect, and should be scored higher. It's not all equally hard, so let's stop pretending it is. This is getting Orwellian. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cowtown Posted August 2, 2011 Share Posted August 2, 2011 I demand more executions in shows… hmmm, meet me in the Crown thread in a few, I have an idea Execution is an effect – I think if a show is sloppy finals week, it should be hammered downwards Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chasgroh Posted August 2, 2011 Share Posted August 2, 2011 Speed up any of those things, i.e. adding visual demand, and add musical demand, do things simultaneously, and every one is MUCH harder, and I'd say, has greater virtuosity and effect, and should be scored higher. It's not all equally hard, so let's stop pretending it is. This is getting Orwellian. ...somewhere in this thread the Olympics were mentioned, now I'm imagining ice skating or gymnastics. I've always thought that compulsories would make for a leveler within our activity, and as a percentage of score would affect everything from design to execution of the finished product. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
84BDsop Posted August 2, 2011 Share Posted August 2, 2011 I think part of the problem might be a corps doing something so very well that it LOOKS easy as hell to someone in the stands, but the judge on the field sees the difficulty in pulling it off correctly. It's similar to when I'm teaching fencing. I'll do a simple action (a beat attack...starting from out of distance, tapping my opponent's blade, and then putting my point on his chest) and ask a new student watching from the gallery how much is going on in that action. They usually say "not much." And then I break down what's really going on. My opponent and I might start from the en garde lines (4 meters apart) and I have to read what he's doing (is he standing there as I close the distance, responding to my approach, starting to panic, etc) and use my own footwork to get him into my range, recognize that moment, hit his blade with a moderate tap (hard enough to be felt/heard, but not so hard that my point ends up aimed to the side), bring my point back toward his chest, perform a proper lunge (extend the weapon toward target and execute the lunge), and land the point. The final sequence from the beat to scoring might only take a couple of 10ths of a second....but I know as an instructor how much is going on in that time...someone sitting in the gallery might not see it. Same for figure skating...the audience wants to see a nice triple Axel jumped and landed....the judges are looking for technical proficiency in doing the jump in the first place (landing it aside) 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
zig zig ZAG Posted August 2, 2011 Author Share Posted August 2, 2011 I think part of the problem might be a corps doing something so very well that it LOOKS easy as hell to someone in the stands, but the judge on the field sees the difficulty in pulling it off correctly. It's similar to when I'm teaching fencing. I'll do a simple action (a beat attack...starting from out of distance, tapping my opponent's blade, and then putting my point on his chest) and ask a new student watching from the gallery how much is going on in that action. They usually say "not much." And then I break down what's really going on. My opponent and I might start from the en garde lines (4 meters apart) and I have to read what he's doing (is he standing there as I close the distance, responding to my approach, starting to panic, etc) and use my own footwork to get him into my range, recognize that moment, hit his blade with a moderate tap (hard enough to be felt/heard, but not so hard that my point ends up aimed to the side), bring my point back toward his chest, perform a proper lunge (extend the weapon toward target and execute the lunge), and land the point. The final sequence from the beat to scoring might only take a couple of 10ths of a second....but I know as an instructor how much is going on in that time...someone sitting in the gallery might not see it. Same for figure skating...the audience wants to see a nice triple Axel jumped and landed....the judges are looking for technical proficiency in doing the jump in the first place (landing it aside) Interesting fencing analogy, but it's not mainly about making hard look easy to beginners. It's about doing hard things and having experts (judges, FMM fans, musicians) recognize and value that difficulty. I think it's even clearer with diving or gymnastics or skating or snowboarding, etc. etc. Individual moves have demand levels; you execute them well, it's a multiplier effect. So demand is rewarded. We want to reward risk-taking and innovation, not caution. I want to see the DCI equivalent of Mary Lou Retton, who needs to get a 9.9 or 10.0 on a very difficult vault to win gold, and she can't win with an easier vault, so there's no point being cautious. And then see her stick it. And get rewarded. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Minimaster Posted August 2, 2011 Share Posted August 2, 2011 I think part of the problem might be a corps doing something so very well that it LOOKS easy as hell to someone in the stands, but the judge on the field sees the difficulty in pulling it off correctly. It's similar to when I'm teaching fencing. I'll do a simple action (a beat attack...starting from out of distance, tapping my opponent's blade, and then putting my point on his chest) and ask a new student watching from the gallery how much is going on in that action. They usually say "not much." And then I break down what's really going on. My opponent and I might start from the en garde lines (4 meters apart) and I have to read what he's doing (is he standing there as I close the distance, responding to my approach, starting to panic, etc) and use my own footwork to get him into my range, recognize that moment, hit his blade with a moderate tap (hard enough to be felt/heard, but not so hard that my point ends up aimed to the side), bring my point back toward his chest, perform a proper lunge (extend the weapon toward target and execute the lunge), and land the point. The final sequence from the beat to scoring might only take a couple of 10ths of a second....but I know as an instructor how much is going on in that time...someone sitting in the gallery might not see it. Same for figure skating...the audience wants to see a nice triple Axel jumped and landed....the judges are looking for technical proficiency in doing the jump in the first place (landing it aside) Yeah, when BD stands still the entire time they play Say a Little Prayer IS a lot harder than it looks... 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WPendergrass Posted August 2, 2011 Share Posted August 2, 2011 One I don't see mentioned often is field spread (both end zone to end zone and sideline to sideline). It is difficult enough to keep the timing right with everyone playing. Even more difficult is when the melody is passed from front to back, side to side, etc. In the 80's we just hosed the parts like this or limited who actually played when outside the 20 yard line. Today, they clean it. It doesn't get the ooohs and ahhhs like fast and/or loud gets, but the judges are likely to recognize how difficult this can be. Great point! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tja273 Posted August 2, 2011 Share Posted August 2, 2011 Yeah, when BD stands still the entire time they play Say a Little Prayer IS a lot harder than it looks... Maybe you didn't notice what the guard is doing at this time. It is called a guard feature. The horn line blows your ears off and the guard is dancing, throwing sabres, throwing rifles, etc. I am sure a guard person on here can tell you how easy all of this is. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DCISuperfan Posted August 2, 2011 Share Posted August 2, 2011 (edited) Maybe you didn't notice what the guard is doing at this time. It is called a guard feature. The horn line blows your ears off and the guard is dancing, throwing sabres, throwing rifles, etc. I am sure a guard person on here can tell you how easy all of this is. Very true. But Cavaliers/Crown/Cadets all have relatively similar guard features but the corps doesnt sit in place for NEAR the amount of time that BD does. Other corps just have more demanding shows that BD does period. BD has better execution than the other corps period. In 11 days we will find out if the other corps can be more demanding but have relatively equal execution to BD and see if they can beat them. In my experience with marching music judging, your demand can be as high as a kite but if your execution isnt at least on the same level as the guys in first with the less demanding show, you dont have a prayer to win. You have to be just about as clean but be significantly more demanding to edge them out of first place. I wish it was skewed a little bit more in favor of the corps that are doing amazing things on the field demand-wise but its not. Judges care about cleanness first and foremost and I honestly think there should be a "difficulty" caption of some sort. Edited August 2, 2011 by DCISuperfan Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mello Dude Posted August 2, 2011 Share Posted August 2, 2011 Give BD credit. Putting the stripes back on the pants this year takes a pair. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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