Liahona Posted August 17, 2011 Share Posted August 17, 2011 Do you think Boston will be offered a spot in the elite 8 for the 2012 Tour of Champions or will Blue Stars remain a member of the elite 8? It has been rumored that a corps does not neccessarily LOOSE their elite status by falling out of the Top 8. Is this truth? It has also been rumored that a few "out of the elite eight" years would be needed to advance. Is this truth? It has also been equally rumored or at least from what I've read over this season on DCP that the Tour of Champions is based solely upon the prior year competitive standing from the TOP 8 corps at finals. Is this the truth? Will there even be another Tour of Champions or was this just a one-season experiement? In my opinion Boston has earned their spot by placing 8th competitively and also their average placement is also a better record than Blue Stars counting both the 2010 and 2011 seasons combined when the TOC began. I honestly have no idea what the powers to be will decide in this matter for 2012, but I feel it should at least be offered to BAC at the very least. Your thoughts? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DCImonkey Posted August 17, 2011 Share Posted August 17, 2011 I think they should add Madison because they are always a crowd favorite and a draw $$$ wise, and they actually ARE a previous champion.... but what do I know. Crown can stay in b/c they are hunting with the big dogs and they have 2 Jim Ott's and a D2 'ship and Bluecoats.... well they are good too even with no trophies to speak of...but they are definitely top tier. Just glad that G7 or whatever didn't pan out and we got the Tour of Champions instead. Great idea even if some of the shows/encores rained out. 6 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Liahona Posted August 17, 2011 Author Share Posted August 17, 2011 (edited) I think they should add Madison because they are always a crowd favorite and a draw $$$ wise, and they actually ARE a previous champion.... but what do I know. Crown can stay in b/c they are hunting with the big dogs and they have 2 Jim Ott's and a D2 'ship and Bluecoats.... well they are good too even with no trophies to speak of...but they are definitely top tier. Just glad that G7 or whatever didn't pan out and we got the Tour of Champions instead. Great idea even if some of the shows/encores rained out. Madison would be a great add to TOC show I definitely agree based on your reasons above... Edited August 17, 2011 by Liahona 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
skywhopper Posted August 17, 2011 Share Posted August 17, 2011 Well there have been two ways of defining the G8/TOC that I've seen thrown around. Either you had to be top 8 two of the last three years (to catch Phantom, which placed 9th in 2009) or you had to be top 8 just in the last year. Either way, Boston ought to be in. If you just want to get the corps with the better recent record, Boston should be in. Obviously they outscored Blue Stars this year. Going back to 2010 or 2009 Boston has a better average ranking. Going back to 2008 they have the same average ranking. Past that, Boston has a better average ranking. I'd prefer they do something different next year, and--taking a page from everyone who's complained about the top 8 not all being champions--just take the champions from the past 10 years (Cadets, Cavies, BD, and Phantom) and have them do a series of shows where they alternate their own shows with non-finalist WC and OC corps. They could still do a lot of the same extra things, but they'd also be featuring some other corps, driving attendance and souvie money to the corps that really need the boost. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Liahona Posted August 17, 2011 Author Share Posted August 17, 2011 I'd prefer they do something different next year, and--taking a page from everyone who's complained about the top 8 not all being champions--just take the champions from the past 10 years (Cadets, Cavies, BD, and Phantom) and have them do a series of shows where they alternate their own shows with non-finalist WC and OC corps. They could still do a lot of the same extra things, but they'd also be featuring some other corps, driving attendance and souvie money to the corps that really need the boost. I'm not sure why they can't just use TOP 8 for the first show from the previous years placement and then adjust accordingly through the season like Murfreesboro used to be in other years...Besides I'm sure the TRIAD is not worried about loosing their coveted spots in the TOC show...I guess the only real factor is money IMO... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
craiga Posted August 17, 2011 Share Posted August 17, 2011 (edited) My impression is that the TOC8 was basically a one year trial run, and that no concrete decisions have yet been made about future seasons. NO, I wasn't in the room, nor do I speak for the management at BAC, but I think this dimension of the season will be revisited this fall/winter and they'll decide what to do going forward. Interestingly, I don't believe that there are ANY TOC corps represented on the current DCI Board other than Howard Weinstein of Blue Stars, and it remains to be seen whether they continue to have this status or not. Naturally, I'll support whatever role Boston ends up playing, but I for one thought there was nothing wrong with BAC's tour schedule this summer just as it was. Anecdotally, it seems as though alot of fans liked some of the special TOC show features, but not alot of folks seem to be enamored with the "arbitrary eight". With Blue Stars sliding this season, and SCV and Bluecoats hardly blowing out Boston and BK, and with the audience appeal of Madison, I think these waters have been muddied. Perhaps the take home message from the season might be no "special" top eight shows per se, but perhaps more special features at regular season shows..... The interesting thing from this year, imo, was that many folks initially thought that on certain nights, all the drama would focus on those eight corps. In actual fact, there seemed to be equal excitment centering on the "other" shows....Madison/Boston/BK/Spirit, etc. I don't think we'll know much more until this winter. Edited August 17, 2011 by craiga 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HeatherM Posted August 17, 2011 Share Posted August 17, 2011 My impression is that the TOC8 was basically a one year trial run, and that no concrete decisions have yet been made about future seasons. NO, I wasn't in the room, nor do I speak for the management at BAC, but I think this dimension of the season will be revisited this fall/winter and they'll decide what to do going forward. Interestingly, I don't believe that there are ANY TOC corps represented on the current DCI Board other than Howard Weinstein of Blue Stars, and it remains to be seen whether they continue to have this status or not. Naturally, I'll support whatever role Boston ends up playing, but I for one thought there was nothing wrong with BAC's tour schedule this summer just as it was. Anecdotally, it seems as though alot of fans liked some of the special TOC show features, but not alot of folks seem to be enamored with the "arbitrary eight". With Blue Stars sliding this season, and SCV and Bluecoats hardly blowing out Boston and BK, and with the audience appeal of Madison, I think these waters have been muddied. Perhaps the take home message from the season might be no "special" top eight shows per se, but perhaps more special features at regular season shows..... The interesting thing from this year, imo, was that many folks initially thought that on certain nights, all the drama would focus on those eight corps. In actual fact, there seemed to be equal excitemnt centering on the "other" shows....Madison/Boston/BK/Spirit, etc. I don't think we'll know much more until this winter. As a fan and ticket buyer, this is what I would like to see. No "top", "elite", or 'champions", just well-balanced line ups with some special features at several shows. 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
audiodb Posted August 17, 2011 Share Posted August 17, 2011 Do you think Boston will be offered a spot in the elite 8 for the 2012 Tour of Champions or will Blue Stars remain a member of the elite 8? It has been rumored that a corps does not neccessarily LOOSE their elite status by falling out of the Top 8. Is this truth? It has also been rumored that a few "out of the elite eight" years would be needed to advance. Is this truth? It has also been equally rumored or at least from what I've read over this season on DCP that the Tour of Champions is based solely upon the prior year competitive standing from the TOP 8 corps at finals. Is this the truth? All of those questions are moot, because.... Will there even be another Tour of Champions or was this just a one-season experiement? ....the 2011 TOC was a one-year experiment. DCI may decide to do it again in 2012.... or "annually"....or to do something different....or to scrap the whole concept. In my opinion Boston has earned their spot by placing 8th competitively and also their average placement is also a better record than Blue Stars counting both the 2010 and 2011 seasons combined when the TOC began. I honestly have no idea what the powers to be will decide in this matter for 2012, but I feel it should at least be offered to BAC at the very least. The 2011 TOC lineup was determined to be the top 8 from the previous season's finals. If this concept is retained for 2012, then it would include Boston rather than Blue Stars. I'm not sure why they can't just use TOP 8 for the first show from the previous years placement and then adjust accordingly through the season like Murfreesboro used to be in other years...Besides I'm sure the TRIAD is not worried about loosing their coveted spots in the TOC show...I guess the only real factor is money IMO... Logistics. With TOC shows and non-TOC shows separated by wide distances (i.e. Houston vs. Odessa), corps would not be able to establish travel itineraries and housing/practice sites more than a week in advance. It isn't impossible (Murfreesboro has operated this way in the past), but it is difficult, and it would ultimately limit the quantity and location of TOC events. More importantly, most of the TOC shows were hosted by TOC corps. If the TOC lineup changes day-to-day, it's possible that the host corps could be bumped out of the lineup for their own show. Imagine Boston committing to host a TOC event, only to get sent to Erie that day instead after finishing 9th in Atlanta. Perhaps the take home message from the season might be no "special" top eight shows per se, but perhaps more special features at regular season shows..... As a fan and ticket buyer, this is what I would like to see. No "top", "elite", or 'champions", just well-balanced line ups with some special features at several shows. These two comments reflect my reaction after seeing the TOC show format. All a corps needs to do is provide an instant encore, learn one combined number for the event finale, and send their I&E people to the stadium before the event. Any world-class corps could do these things. If the TOC show format is deemed worthwhile, why shouldn't all the WC corps do it? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
7567BC Posted August 17, 2011 Share Posted August 17, 2011 craiga & Liahona, where do you two get off using logic and reason to express your opinions??? LOL. I had a more simplistic view of the G8/TOC issue relative to how DCI manages it next season. I would see it as a yearly positioning where a corps could be in it one year or possibly out the next (i.e. Boston and Blue Stars). I would not add any corps to the mix who did not achieve top 8 positioning as by definition they wouldn't have achieved be top 8 regardless of their popularity. That would be referencing Madison in this case and although it would probably be beneficial to a TOC show from a fan standpoint (and there-in is the rub of DCI's intent to be fan considerate). There doesn't seem to be much movement in the upper tier so to speak so the most of the yearly impact would happen from 5 through 8, and would incentivize 9 -12 to get be the mix as well. This does add a little something to the competitiveness of this group of corps. But for me overtall, I don't believe there needs to be any specific distinction of a G8 or sustaining/continuation of TOC shows. I know they are meant to generate interest and money (it's always about money isn't it) but who gets the financial benefit of a TOC show? (not rhetorical I am actually asking). From a show success standpoint some shows are definitiely going to get a crowd. Boston's attendance at their show this year may have been their best and that I believe is due to the line up of BD, Cadets, SCV and Boston. The Boston - Madison battles this year were great as were many others. DCI should plan out the most competitive shows possible by coordinating tours enabling DCI to mix and match shows for the season by planning ahead. Maybe I am wrong but it seemed to me the tours were realtively close geographically and that might enable. The caveat to this though is knowing/speculating how a corps will be in the upcoming season? Did anyone really see Blue Stars drop coming? Just thinking out loud. Now as for you Liahona and craiga (and Brasso too), enough of your sensibilities :-) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Liahona Posted August 17, 2011 Author Share Posted August 17, 2011 My impression is that the TOC8 was basically a one year trial run, and that no concrete decisions have yet been made about future seasons. NO, I wasn't in the room, nor do I speak for the management at BAC, but I think this dimension of the season will be revisited this fall/winter and they'll decide what to do going forward. Interestingly, I don't believe that there are ANY TOC corps represented on the current DCI Board other than Howard Weinstein of Blue Stars, and it remains to be seen whether they continue to have this status or not. Naturally, I'll support whatever role Boston ends up playing, but I for one thought there was nothing wrong with BAC's tour schedule this summer just as it was. I didn't even broach the idea of what management at BAC would decide moving forward. I will support them in any decision. I personally preferred BAC's tour schedule this past season especially their match-ups with Madison and BK as well. I'm not sure if I would have liked the TOC schedule. Off-topic: I am SO GLAD that the Lawrence show this year did not compete with Allentown. That made a big difference for my attendance to this show as I didn't have to decide between the two. Whomever in BAC management made that decision..BRAVO! Anecdotally, it seems as though alot of fans liked some of the special TOC show features, but not alot of folks seem to be enamored with the "arbitrary eight". With Blue Stars sliding this season, and SCV and Bluecoats hardly blowing out Boston and BK, and with the audience appeal of Madison, I think these waters have been muddied. I think you are definitely right about the waters being muddied. I personally did not attend any TOC shows this year. I decided to attend Old Bridge, Bridgeport, Allentown (just Saturday) and Lawrence in lieu of the TOC Grand Finale. I almost see a TOC show serving only one unique purpose...and that is "bragging rights" for the corps involved. Is it really anything more than this? I really don't see it beyond maybe some extra $$$ as well... Perhaps the take home message from the season might be no "special" top eight shows per se, but perhaps more special features at regular season shows..... The funny trend I noticed and this was because I looked at a tremendous amount of "tweets" this season...Many people had no idea WHO was at the show until they were actually there. That actually surprised me...many times they would base going to the show based on who was there a prior year. I always look at line-up for DCI, but that is only because I don't attend any shows that Boston is not participating in with the exception of the two-day show at Allentown in years past. DCA is whole different matter. The interesting thing from this year, imo, was that many folks initially thought that on certain nights, all the drama would focus on those eight corps. In actual fact, there seemed to be equal excitment centering on the "other" shows....Madison/Boston/BK/Spirit, etc. I was definitely more engaged in the close competitive aspect among those corps as well...Especially the battle Madison and Boston had this season...Kept me interested all summer... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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