BOBSMYTH Posted August 20, 2011 Share Posted August 20, 2011 I reread this comment a couple of times, but the comparison between attendance figures in one moment in time and another moment in time.... AND... the analogy comparison between a Company's product sales volume with one product with that of a completely different product's sales volume frankly makes so sense at all. The analogy is so poor and so totally unconnected in my view that it makes any sort of an attempt at a cogent and intelligent reply to this analogy and its observations pretty much impossible. And I have no idea what the comment means that " DCI operates in a different " environment " now. What " environment " ? ( the poster here never explains this " environment " change that he perceives, nor how it impacts this topic of attendance changes. ) So I'll let the comments here rest by simply stating I view this as a totally disconnected and rather confused analogy requiring little more than that follow up observation. Sorry you were unable to understand the point I was making. Let me try to re-state it with more detail. Lots and lots and lots of things in this world have changed over time. These things are so different today compared to other eras that it makes any comparisons between things of those bygone eras and things of today interesting at best - but mostly irrelevent. Is the business side of DCI acheiving success in 2011? Maybe, maybe not. The best way to determine the answer to that question - what did DCI plan to do in 2011 and how well are they executing that plan? Nothing from the 1971 Cotton Bowl tells me much useful information about what is going on in 2011. Nothing from any VFW event tells me anything meaningful about how many people watched DCI drum corps in theaters or followed drum corps all season on the Fan Network. No numbers from 1981 Montreal help me understand 2011 ticket sales in the context of $4 gas. The environment that DCI operates in today is very different than in prior years - different numbers of corps, different numbers of participants, differences in average age of marchers, differences in economic realities of the ticket buying public, differences in entertainment and activity options, differences in geographic distribtion of corps, differences in audience expectations, differences in technology (synthesizers anyone?), differences in the structure of the tour (maybe there is no need to go to Finals in Indy if I live in metro Atlanta), differences in the design of drum corps shows, etc, etc. If I want to form an opinion on DCI management's effectiveness in 2011, I want to compare 2011 budget expecatations versus 2011 actual results. I want to know about more than just Saturday night in Lucas Oil. I want to know about Allentown. I want to know about Atlanta. I want to know about Drums along the Rockies. I want to know about how many tee shirts were sold this summer. I want to know about sponsors and how many people went to DCI at the Movies in June. That kind of data would provide a meaningful analysis of 2011. I want to know if the parade is coming back next year and how well the Open Class corps liked the new Thursday Prelims format. I want to know what the plans are to continue the fan friendly emphasis of this year's shows. I want to know about the plans for 2012. In summary, I want to talk about this year and next. That is the meaningful discussion, IMHO. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Grumpy Posted August 20, 2011 Share Posted August 20, 2011 Good gosh, folks...DCI reports paid attendance this year was up for the Championships...let's just be glad, hope next year is even better, and put this issue to bed already. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BRASSO Posted August 20, 2011 Share Posted August 20, 2011 (edited) Sorry you were unable to understand the point I was making. Let me try to re-state it with more detail. the plans for 2012. In summary, I want to talk about this year and next. That is the meaningful discussion, IMHO. Got it. So that you are consistent, I 'll make a note that any discussion thread of anything at all prior to 2011 with you is ( as you said above ) " irrelevent ". The good news here moving forward ( for me anyway ) is that your posts will be limited from here on in on DCP to the Drum Corps topics and discussions on the the here and now, and predictions into next year. You have no interest in the past... the more recent, nor the long ago. No problem. However, since this thread covered info from the past, I'm sort of surprised your responded at all to it. In the future, my suggestion would be for you to simply ignore or scroll down from any discussion on anything at all prior to 2011 or if it does not entail predictions for 2012. This way you'll save us both the time and energy of reading one another's posts and feeling compelled to respond to it, BOBSYMTH. Edited August 20, 2011 by BRASSO 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Liahona Posted August 20, 2011 Share Posted August 20, 2011 DCI is a business that operates 365 days a year. The relative results of one night in August - while important - does not begin to give us any kind of meaningful glimpse into the "state of the union" of the business as a whole. I don't understand your point...Finals week can't be completely discounted because it is probably a fair percentage of yearly revenues. The exact percentage I do not know. It continues to amaze me how many people go back 20 to 50 YEARS to make comparisons of these data points. The results for any VFW show from the 60's or Montreal in the early 80's is completely irrelevant to the results from 2011 in the environment that DCI operates in today. I do not think it is irrelevant at all. Historical information can have merits of its own for caparison IMO. The conclusions drawn about the effectiveness of DCI as an organization - or drum corps as an activity - when making these selective memory types of comparisons defies logic. "Yup. IBM must really suck. Do you know how many millions of Selectric typewriters they sold back in the 70's? And their mainframe computer business hasn't been the same since the 60's. I'm amazed they are still around. They sure managed those businesses into the ground." History has an uncanny way of repeating itself! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BRASSO Posted August 20, 2011 Share Posted August 20, 2011 (edited) I do not think it is irrelevant at all. Historical information can have merits of its own for caparison IMO. I agree, Liahona. We make comparisons all the time on things of today with the past, while fully recognizing that things naturally change in the intervening years. Even DCI itself recognizes and pays homage to it's past, while paying tribute to the present. Why a few posters get their undies in a bunch when the past is brought up on here on occasion is odd indeed, imo. There is no sports discussion board, or music appreciation board... or ANY board for that matter in the world..... that does not discuss music, artists, teams, players, attendance, concerts, games, you name it, etc from the past and not make comparisons to today,.. both good and bad... even as far back as the late 1800's, or early 20's 30's, 40's, 50's, etc even. Oh well, maybe in the future these posters will not want to discuss anything that happened in Drum Corps in 2011 either, who knows. But it does seem rather peculiar to me, Liahona. But everyone doesn't look at things the same, and so its cool nonetheless. Edited August 20, 2011 by BRASSO Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GUARDLING Posted August 20, 2011 Share Posted August 20, 2011 (edited) I agree, Liahona. We make comparisons all the time on things of today with the past, while fully recognizing that things naturally change in the intervening years. Even DCI itself recognizes and pays homage to it's past, while paying tribute to the present. Why a few posters get their undies in a bunch when the past is brought up on here on occasion is odd indeed, imo. There is no sports discussion board, or music appreciation board... or ANY board for that matter in the world..... that does not discuss music, artists, teams, players, attendance, concerts, games, you name it, etc from the past and not make comparisons to today,.. both good and bad... even as far back as the late 1800's, or early 20's 30's, 40's, 50's, etc even. Oh well, maybe in the future these posters will not want to discuss anything that happened in Drum Corps in 2011 either, who knows. But it does seem rather peculiar to me, Liahona. But everyone doesn't look at things the same, and so its cool nonetheless. as some one from the past as well as the present i think i can say without offending hopefully it's not on occasion...its shoved in almost every conversation on dcp to the point even i get sick of hearing about when i marched...lol......as some may get their panties in a knot for mentioning the past or a comparison, the same applies for those who nev er leave the past and shove our history down others throats. the past should be respected and on occasion maybe even compared to the present at times but when either thinks they are the holy grail of the activity is when IMO perception IS LOST...again jmo..................i think you are right about the future and people not wanting to discuss this year.....only natural as we all evolve...if we like it or not. Edited August 20, 2011 by GUARDLING Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mello Dude Posted August 20, 2011 Share Posted August 20, 2011 as some one from the past as well as the present i think i can say without offending hopefully it's not on occasion...its shoved in almost every conversation on dcp to the point even i get sick of hearing about when i marched...lol......as some may get their panties in a knot for mentioning the past or a comparison, the same applies for those who nev er leave the past and shove our history down others throats. the past should be respected and on occasion maybe even compared to the present at times but when either thinks they are the holy grail of the activity is when IMO perception IS LOST...again jmo..................i think you are right about the future and people not wanting to discuss this year.....only natural as we all evolve...if we like it or not. Indeed. But, always the but, if you do NOT know where you come from (know who you are) and LEARN from mistakes and successes you have had, you are doomed to repeat them over and over and never really progress. People that think the past is irrelevant to future generations are missing the ball...BIG TIME. As a side note, I have noticed this as something NOT being driven home in schools anymore. People that don't think that history has something to teach us (or glean insight), seem to be more commonplace than ever, and quite honestly it is scary. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mobrien Posted August 20, 2011 Share Posted August 20, 2011 A few salient points... 1. Talking about attendance numbers and revenues without talking about costs of production is a non-starter of a conversation. If DCI's costs of doing business at LOS are much lower than at a one-off facility like the Rose Bowl, they can be showing significantly increased net revenues even IF paid attendance is down 10 or 20% from the other locations. Hard dollars are what they are, and $1.2 million in net beats $1.1 million in net every time. 2. The total number of viewers for all media is really the most important number. If they have 20,000+ paying people in movie theaters on Thursday night and another 5,000+ watching the web stream on Friday night, that's not an insignificant set of eyes when it comes to selling potential sponsorships, etc, and ___,000 times whatever DCI's cut of the $18 ticket is a decent chunk of change. 3. DCI's attendance figures from the 70s are probably a little 'optimistic', shall we say. Whitely was a great asset for DCI, but as a corps director once told me, he could put a positive spin on a nuclear attack. 4. Boo's right, in that the audience for VFW was always helped by conventioneers and their families looking for something to do as long as they were in town. Worth noting that the first DCI finals in '72, where the founders knew they had to rely on drum corps audiences only, was staged in a 12,000 seat stadium. That should indicate what they thought the audience would be minus the conventioneers. This when drum corps was arguably still in its relative heyday from a participation standpoint. 5. Speaking of 'hype', the "Million Dollar Pageant of Drums"? Where the ___ did the million dollars go every year? Was show management's bar tab that big? 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BOBSMYTH Posted August 20, 2011 Share Posted August 20, 2011 Got it. So that you are consistent, I 'll make a note that any discussion thread of anything at all prior to 2011 with you is ( as you said above ) " irrelevent ". The good news here moving forward ( for me anyway ) is that your posts will be limited from here on in on DCP to the Drum Corps topics and discussions on the the here and now, and predictions into next year. You have no interest in the past... the more recent, nor the long ago. No problem. However, since this thread covered info from the past, I'm sort of surprised your responded at all to it. In the future, my suggestion would be for you to simply ignore or scroll down from any discussion on anything at all prior to 2011 or if it does not entail predictions for 2012. This way you'll save us both the time and energy of reading one another's posts and feeling compelled to respond to it, BOBSYMTH. Actually - you don't got it. Not sure how I've offended you but - I love the past. I own DCI's Legeacy Series DVD's. I have records older than DCI. I occasionally read and post in the DCP Historical section. But this isn't about me. The best news in a long time - that DCI Finals attendance is up in 2011 over 2010 - is being buried in this thread with several posts about how 2011 attendance cannot be seen as good news because it doesn't compare to "X" from year "19xx". I will continue to contend that any increase in Finals attendance is a very good thing. That's all I'm saying. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BOBSMYTH Posted August 20, 2011 Share Posted August 20, 2011 I don't understand your point...Finals week can't be completely discounted because it is probably a fair percentage of yearly revenues. The exact percentage I do not know. I said it was important - just not all important. I would estimate that ticket sales for Finals is about +/- 10% of DCI's total annual revenue. Important - but still leaving 90% of revenue coming from other sources. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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