skywhopper Posted August 19, 2011 Share Posted August 19, 2011 Glad to hear attendance was up this year! I would assume that means ticket sales are up as well, but it's disappointing the DCI info was not more clear. I'd love to see a real layout of X full price sales, Y discount sales, Z freebies, as well as an actual attendance figure. I mean, sure, DCI is free to keep all of this a secret, and I don't doubt reactions like those in this thread encourage them to do so, but releasing poorly defined figures (attendance minus *some* freebies) and then only in up years is just asking for people not to trust what gets published. Release well-defined numbers year in and year out no matter the trend, and we will be far more inclined to trust them when there's actually good news. I dug back through DCI.org's news archives a bit to find attendance figures from the past. Again, I'll point out that they've only published the numbers in up years, or years they could easily define as up years. But they do sometimes include historical comparisons. This is the most data-filled article, with 10 years of "paid attenance" figures from 95 to 04. Orlando in the late 90s had the lowest paid attendance of the data we have--in 1998 there were 12,693 tickets bought for finals--but if full attendance was 15,900 or so in 2010, that easily could have come from an even smaller set of ticket purchases. I dunno, for me, I've only been in a financial position the past two years to even consider going to finals, but the impossibility of getting a fair shot at good seats (both because of the Friends of DCI blackout sections, and because of Ticketmaster's terrible interface) makes it all seem way too risky given the price of three tickets (speaking of which, a batch of three isn't even a possibility via the Friends of DCI sales method). It's probably worth it to me to pay $400 for three good tickets, but I have to feel certain they're going to be really #### good seats. Thus far, DCI can't provide that. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
skywhopper Posted August 19, 2011 Share Posted August 19, 2011 I'll throw in that I don't think there's any way to compare the VFW days with recent numbers. The past 10 years is really all we can reasonably hope to compare with. The cinecast numbers are where the growth seems to be. I haven't found anything listing theater counts or attendance for this year yet, but digging through the archives, the QF/Prelims cinecast attendance has gone from 17,000 at 44 theaters* in 2004 to 38,400 at over 500 theaters in 2010. I have no idea what the margins are for DCI on that event, but hopefully they can keep it growing. I'm assuming the growing number of theaters with digital projection systems is a big part of feeding the theater growth, and the more people it's available to, the more people will come. There are still large markets with no cinecast anywhere nearby (Memphis, for one), so there's still a lot of room to grow. Good luck, DCI! 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BOBSMYTH Posted August 19, 2011 Share Posted August 19, 2011 DCI is a business that operates 365 days a year. The relative results of one night in August - while important - does not begin to give us any kind of meaningful glimpse into the "state of the union" of the business as a whole. It continues to amaze me how many people go back 20 to 50 YEARS to make comparisons of these data points. The results for any VFW show from the 60's or Montreal in the early 80's is completely irrelevant to the results from 2011 in the environment that DCI operates in today. The conclusions drawn about the effectiveness of DCI as an organization - or drum corps as an activity - when making these selective memory types of comparisons defies logic. "Yup. IBM must really suck. Do you know how many millions of Selectric typewriters they sold back in the 70's? And their mainframe computer business hasn't been the same since the 60's. I'm amazed they are still around. They sure managed those businesses into the ground." 5 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
glory Posted August 19, 2011 Share Posted August 19, 2011 No....it said, "does not include corps and staff members who entered the stadium after performances with wristbands or staff/VIP credentials". There are other VIPs, you know. Surely you're not suggesting DCI opened the turnstyles to thousands (or even hundreds) of non-wristband-wearing, non-member, non-staff, non-corps VIPs! That it handed out a tuba case full of super-secret VIP credentials just so it could inflate the paid attendance data. Face it, paid attendance was up at about 17K. It's the only reasonable way to look at this. HH 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
skywhopper Posted August 19, 2011 Share Posted August 19, 2011 Surely you're not suggesting DCI opened the turnstyles to thousands (or even hundreds) of non-wristband-wearing, non-member, non-staff, non-corps VIPs! That it handed out a tuba case full of super-secret VIP credentials just so it could inflate the paid attendance data. Face it, paid attendance was up at about 17K. It's the only reasonable way to look at this. If ticket sales were 17k, why did they specify it as "attendance... which does not include corps and staff members who entered the stadium after performances with wristbands or staff/VIP credentials"? Maybe it's just a poor choice of wording--if so they ought to update the article. But the most important numbers are ones for "paid attendance" or "ticket sales" for the past five years--ie since the last time we had a real number. We know Pasadena in 2007 had 24,309 tickets sold. We have a vague number somewhere between "tickets sold" and "actual attendance" for 2011, and a percentage increase over 2010. Jeff posted some percentage drops for 2009 and 2010, but I'm not sure where those came from, or if they are tickets or attendance. It would be really easy to clear this up... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
audiodb Posted August 19, 2011 Share Posted August 19, 2011 Surely you're not suggesting DCI opened the turnstyles to thousands (or even hundreds) of non-wristband-wearing, non-member, non-staff, non-corps VIPs! That it handed out a tuba case full of super-secret VIP credentials just so it could inflate the paid attendance data. Good grief. First of all, DCI routinely allows quite a number of people into finals free of charge. But don't take my word for it. From DCI.org, August 10, 2002: Attendance figures soared at this year’s Drum Corps International World Championships. With over 20,200 paid entries and another 6,000 or so seats reserved for participants, sponsors, and recipients of special recognition, the total reaches beyond the 26,000 mark. A similar number of freebies got into finals in 2007, according to this DCI.org report from September 13, 2007: With the entire tour heading to the West Coast for the first time ever, Marching Music’s Major League entered Pasadena, Calif. during the second week of August for the 2007 DCI World Championships at Rose Bowl Stadium. A final tally of 24,309 ticket purchases was recorded for the Division I Finals. “More than 50,000 tickets were sold for 2007 Championship Week events. Including those with VIP guest credentials, as well as our corporate partners, members of the media and non-competing corps members, more than 30,000 people enjoyed the World Championship Finals live in the Rose Bowl Stadium on Aug. 11,” said Kristy Holst, ticketing manager for Drum Corps International. Now, that said....no, they don't let corps kids, sponsors, VIPs, recent ageouts and music majors into shows for free just so that they can publish higher numbers on the rare occasion they actually publish numbers. They do these things to cultivate support for DCI and the activity. More importantly, they do this every year, and as I noted before, I don't know of any reason the number of freebies would be significantly different from 2010 to 2011. Therefore, a 9% increase in total attendance at Saturday's event suggests that paid attendance probably increased in similar fashion. So you can stop jumping on every one of my posts, claiming I am somehow disputing that assertion. TGIF. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
glory Posted August 19, 2011 Share Posted August 19, 2011 It's a deal. HH Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jeff Ream Posted August 19, 2011 Share Posted August 19, 2011 DCI is a business that operates 365 days a year. The relative results of one night in August - while important - does not begin to give us any kind of meaningful glimpse into the "state of the union" of the business as a whole. It continues to amaze me how many people go back 20 to 50 YEARS to make comparisons of these data points. The results for any VFW show from the 60's or Montreal in the early 80's is completely irrelevant to the results from 2011 in the environment that DCI operates in today. The conclusions drawn about the effectiveness of DCI as an organization - or drum corps as an activity - when making these selective memory types of comparisons defies logic. "Yup. IBM must really suck. Do you know how many millions of Selectric typewriters they sold back in the 70's? And their mainframe computer business hasn't been the same since the 60's. I'm amazed they are still around. They sure managed those businesses into the ground." I'm arguing last 15 tops. and one night in August is very important to DCI. very. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jeff Ream Posted August 19, 2011 Share Posted August 19, 2011 If ticket sales were 17k, why did they specify it as "attendance... which does not include corps and staff members who entered the stadium after performances with wristbands or staff/VIP credentials"? Maybe it's just a poor choice of wording--if so they ought to update the article. But the most important numbers are ones for "paid attendance" or "ticket sales" for the past five years--ie since the last time we had a real number. We know Pasadena in 2007 had 24,309 tickets sold. We have a vague number somewhere between "tickets sold" and "actual attendance" for 2011, and a percentage increase over 2010. Jeff posted some percentage drops for 2009 and 2010, but I'm not sure where those came from, or if they are tickets or attendance. It would be really easy to clear this up... I'm told it was paid attendance, but I had to dig thru many layers to get that. I'm thinking it was along the lines of this years stats Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GMichael1230 Posted August 19, 2011 Share Posted August 19, 2011 Montreal 1982, 36,000+ It was 81 Dave, not 82. Geoffrey Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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