audiodb Posted August 23, 2011 Share Posted August 23, 2011 You're being coy. This is not an apples-to-apples comparison. The 2011 number specifically excluded members, staff and VIPs. The 1981 number, it seems, includes most, if not all, of those same categories. I'm not being "coy". The 2011 number only excludes members/staff re-entering via the stadium tunnel after their performance. Thus, it is the same kind of "turnstyle count" as any other total attendance number would be (like that 1981 number, for example). Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
glory Posted August 24, 2011 Share Posted August 24, 2011 (edited) Then you're being silly. Quoting DCI: The attendance for the three-day event totals 36,617, which does not include corps and staff members who entered the stadium after performances with wristbands or staff/VIP credentials. The 2011 figure exclude corps and staff members with wristbands. They exclude staff and VIPs. It is not comparable to 1981 count in which tickets were distributed to corps and staff. HH Edited August 24, 2011 by glory Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
crfrey71 Posted August 24, 2011 Share Posted August 24, 2011 I think one factor that I think many don't factor in is the DCI schedule. Back in the day, when Finals attendance was much higher (in some cases), you did not have the regionals where basically most or all corps showed up, like you do in today's DCI schedule. I think it wasn't till late '80's, when you had the "Preview" show, where almost everyone showed up. But, before that, the regionals were truly regionals. Remember the PBS broadcast, and Rondo would have the map of the USA and put a star and name of corps where they had won? You would usually have at least 3 different corps names on that. I think today, many people, instead of going to finals, they go to the regional which is closest to them and skip finals. These are options they have today that they did not have 20-30 years ago. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jeff Ream Posted August 24, 2011 Share Posted August 24, 2011 A very good point. BUT . . . What is more important in the long term, (a) maximizing net revenues from Finals or (b) growing the fan base? I would argue that the latter is the more important long-term strategy, and that a better way to do so is to stage the activity's premier event at different locations around the country every few years. Reasonable minds may (and do) differ. By the way, the pay-per-view events at home and in theaters are a GREAT way to both expand the fan base and increase revenues, IMHO. Kudos to all at DCI who made this happen. C. Both Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jeff Ream Posted August 24, 2011 Share Posted August 24, 2011 So? HH so? that meant that if those people wanted to go, they had to pay for a seat. Hey I'm in a suite at DCA in 2 weeks. I paid for my seat Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jeff Ream Posted August 24, 2011 Share Posted August 24, 2011 I think one factor that I think many don't factor in is the DCI schedule. Back in the day, when Finals attendance was much higher (in some cases), you did not have the regionals where basically most or all corps showed up, like you do in today's DCI schedule. I think it wasn't till late '80's, when you had the "Preview" show, where almost everyone showed up. But, before that, the regionals were truly regionals. Remember the PBS broadcast, and Rondo would have the map of the USA and put a star and name of corps where they had won? You would usually have at least 3 different corps names on that. I think today, many people, instead of going to finals, they go to the regional which is closest to them and skip finals. These are options they have today that they did not have 20-30 years ago. one problem. Look at finals week attendance the early part of this decade when the regionals format was pretty much like it is now. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
danielray Posted August 24, 2011 Share Posted August 24, 2011 (edited) The VFW ( and AL ) delegates first went to the Drum and Bugle Corps competitions prior to WW2. They continued to go year after year for the next 30 years ( one presumes ) because there was sufficient entertainment value in the spectacle for them to want to return year after year to the Drum Corps portion of the many featured festivities revolving around the Veterans Convention. Since we are talking attendance figures, each year at the height of the VFW (and AL) National Conventions, less than half the delegates actually went to the VFW Million Dollar Pageant of Drums National Championship show in any given year. In 1961, in Miami, Drum Corps News published their report that ( quote ) "40,000 fans attended the VFW's Finals " ( under a pic of the Cambridge Caballeros in performance ) I have no idea WHY the fans went. Who cares WHY someone goes to a public event. I've gotten free tickets to things, and could not be bothered to sit for several hours in the same seat ( in this case the heat of Miami )if I did not think I was going to enjoy sitting and watching something for 4 + hours or so. And I sure as heck would not return the following year if the show was not to my liking. I've heard this knock on VFW and AL National Championships attendance figures that " well, you know, these were delegates and they got in free " or whatever. I don't think its fair to say that these delegates would sit in the heat ( no AC, nor indoors) ) for several hours watching the VFW National Drum Corps Championship ( even if it was free with Convention ticket )... and keep coming back year after year... unless the show was something they enjoyed watching for 4-5 hours on end each year. I'll accept that DCI had 17,000 fans at Finals this year and not make any upward or downward adjustments for this figure based upon the WHY the fan went. I see no reason to ascribe motive for an attendee's attendance. Likewise, I think it would be beneficial to acknowledge that upwards of 40,000 people have attended the VFW Drum and Bugle Corps National Championships in the past. ( and in the same year ANOTHER 20-30,000 for the AL Nationals Drum and Bugle Corps Championships. )There is nothing to be gained Mike ( imo ) to alter attendance figures up or down by assigning motive for attendance by virtue of trying to determine WHY a person decided to sit for upwards of 4+ hours and watch a Drum Corps show.... even if they were just "delegates " ( as somehow not " real " Drum Corps show fans. ).... PS, I've been to lots of DCI Championships ( first one, Ithaca, NY '74 ) The largest DCI audience that I personally recall is probably Montreal in 1981. They had approx. 32-38,000 for Finals. Some were Corps members no doubt that were in Corps that did not make Finals. So I'd estimate that there was around 28-32,000 paid or so in '81 ( '82 had similar size too, imo. ) What is the point of all this? As of August 14th, the ONLY figures that matter right now are 2012. How does going on about attendance figures from my grandparents' and parents' day do anything to pop 2012's numbers? On the topic... in the context of this thread, attendance figures and gross receipts are absolutely meaningless... the only thing that really matters is the net. DCI is really stepping up to improve the tour events and finals. There is solid progress, especially in a seriously rough economic climate. It is working. It fits the NOW. There are no lessons to be learned from 1961, 74, 81, etc. Zero from then is applicable now. Edited August 24, 2011 by danielray 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
danielray Posted August 24, 2011 Share Posted August 24, 2011 I'm not being "coy". The 2011 number only excludes members/staff re-entering via the stadium tunnel after their performance. Thus, it is the same kind of "turnstyle count" as any other total attendance number would be (like that 1981 number, for example). Turnstyle count? That is ancient stuff. Admittedly, not sure how the specific stuff works these days w/ DCI... but my old company did loads and loads of events with wristband and other types of entrance mechanisms. All forms of entrance were unique to that individual user. It is possible to generate reports of each individual user, their entrances, exits, etc. Could generate all kinds of crazy reports for pre-sales tickets. We usually ran contests at events to encourage registration of gate sales tickets.... which allowed us to capture about 55% of gate sales demographics. If they are doing turnstyle counts, seriously... that is some abacus style stuff. I can't imagine anyone does that these days, especially in such a new stadium. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Shamu89 Posted August 24, 2011 Share Posted August 24, 2011 Turnstyle count? That is ancient stuff. Admittedly, not sure how the specific stuff works these days w/ DCI... but my old company did loads and loads of events with wristband and other types of entrance mechanisms. All forms of entrance were unique to that individual user. It is possible to generate reports of each individual user, their entrances, exits, etc. Could generate all kinds of crazy reports for pre-sales tickets. We usually ran contests at events to encourage registration of gate sales tickets.... which allowed us to capture about 55% of gate sales demographics. If they are doing turnstyle counts, seriously... that is some abacus style stuff. I can't imagine anyone does that these days, especially in such a new stadium. FWIW, I haven't read the entire thread, so I'm not sure if this was stated before. Staff and volunteers that entered the stadium through the regular gates with a wristband were just let in (I was a volunteer with a wristband). Ticket barcodes were scanned individually, but writband wearers were just let in without capturing any info. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
audiodb Posted August 24, 2011 Share Posted August 24, 2011 Turnstyle count? That is ancient stuff. Agreed. My point, however, was to try to illustrate what a "total attendance" number signifies, using as few words as possible. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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