PhantomCav Posted August 24, 2011 Share Posted August 24, 2011 (edited) I really doubt that all of those coaches you mentioned are as cuddly in private as they are in front of the camera. Phil Jackson might not be cuddly, but he's pretty open about his philosophy. His approach is all mental and fairly passive outwardly. Granted, he's working with multimillionaire professionals. He took incense to Bulls practices in the Jordan era, for cripes' sake. That's almost taking to too far the other way, but hey, whatever. Of course, one could argue that instead dealing with kids, specifically ones who already have paid thousands of dollars in fees, some of which go to pay the staff, only further enhances that they deserve better treatment. Edit: And I understand Phantom's military heritage in that it came out of a VFW corps whereas the Cavaliers were a Boy Scout troop. But it isn't the military. At the end of the day, it's marching band. (Yes, I went there) Edited August 24, 2011 by PhantomCav 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dcvet95 Posted August 24, 2011 Share Posted August 24, 2011 Hey phantomcav... serious question. Did you march PR? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PhantomCav Posted August 24, 2011 Share Posted August 24, 2011 Hey phantomcav... serious question. Did you march PR? Nope. But like I said, I'm related to a proud former member. They loved it. Absolutely loved it.....except for the way vis staff treated people occasionally. And the friends my relative made through the crops seem to feel the same way. Please don't mistake that for them not loving the corps and their time there. Like I also said, I know that's anecdotal and secondhand. But considering there are plenty on here who seem to have heard similar things and feel the same way, there must be at least a little fire behind the smoke. I'm glad that members from 08 don't seem to have had any such encounters. The incidents I've been told about happened in ensuing years, when Regiment struggled a bit more (relatively speaking, of course). And I certainly hope that every member has the time of their life no matter what the staff is like. But I just don't think that's grounds for letting them off the hook, either. So, no I didn't march. Yes, I know that means I'll never "know" like those who did. But I also want to be clear that I love PR and Cavaliers. They're different in pretty much every way, but I appreciate them both for what they put out on the field. And the members and former members I met through family and school have been pretty great people, too. I think they all deserve staff that respond accordingly. I can see that some former members of PR disagree with me, and they're obviously fully entitled to. I think we've reached "agree to disagree" territory. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GeneralTsoChicken Posted August 24, 2011 Share Posted August 24, 2011 Haha I guess no one is truly anonymous on the internet these days. Nah! I just can't think of anyone who marched green team and white team in the last 12 years, besides us and a tenor player who marched like 03 or 05? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BRASSO Posted August 24, 2011 Share Posted August 24, 2011 A student who leaves my teaching unimproved or unchanged has been ripped off. This is a refreshing sentiment to publically hear from someone currently involved in the teaching profession. 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cadets98 Posted August 24, 2011 Share Posted August 24, 2011 Bobby Knight also continually threw tantrums that reflected poorly on his program, his team, and himself. And he was fired from a job he had to try hard to lose (and almost fired at the next one). Maybe you're in the camp that think IU was wrong to terminate him, but I think most who aren't blind Hoosier faithful would disagree with you. Yeah, IU has 5 banners....from over 20 years ago. Taking the basketball coaching analogy further, do you think Phil Jackson coaches that way? Does Coach K or Roy Williams? Bill Self? I've seen K, Roy, and Self mad, but never anything like Knight. Point being, Knight's methods hardly justify themselves just in the name of winning. These are all good points and I actually tend to agree. I think there is a balance. I don't think that calling a kid F'ing fat is appropriate at all. I just have a fear as a teacher myself of being accused of being too hard on kids when in fact its kind of my teaching style. Now, I'm not like Knight at all and don't like to cuss kids and all that. But I do think that kids, especially kids that already are tough like drum corps kids, need a little lightning bolt from Zeus ONCE IN A WHILE, so to speak to wake them up and challenge them further. And I can kind of have a coach's type approach to rehearsal. That's all. There is a balance. My philosophy is this. The needs of the students are met by the teacher, not the other way around. If I need the kids to be good for my ego, then I might get a little too abrasive. On the other hand, if I need the kids to like me and be my friend, then I can get too soft. As long as I remember that I am there to serve them, then I think I can find that balance. I'm not there to coddle and be their friend and I am not there to abuse them for my own benefit. I'm there to be their teacher. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dcvet95 Posted August 24, 2011 Share Posted August 24, 2011 Nope. But like I said, I'm related to a proud former member. They loved it. Absolutely loved it.....except for the way vis staff treated people occasionally. And the friends my relative made through the crops seem to feel the same way. Please don't mistake that for them not loving the corps and their time there. Like I also said, I know that's anecdotal and secondhand. But considering there are plenty on here who seem to have heard similar things and feel the same way, there must be at least a little fire behind the smoke. I'm glad that members from 08 don't seem to have had any such encounters. The incidents I've been told about happened in ensuing years, when Regiment struggled a bit more (relatively speaking, of course). And I certainly hope that every member has the time of their life no matter what the staff is like. But I just don't think that's grounds for letting them off the hook, either. So, no I didn't march. Yes, I know that means I'll never "know" like those who did. But I also want to be clear that I love PR and Cavaliers. They're different in pretty much every way, but I appreciate them both for what they put out on the field. And the members and former members I met through family and school have been pretty great people, too. I think they all deserve staff that respond accordingly. I can see that some former members of PR disagree with me, and they're obviously fully entitled to. I think we've reached "agree to disagree" territory. I wasn't trying get ammo for an argument. I'm sure there is some truth behind what you've heard. I believe that there are at least as many members (if not many more) that actually enjoy this type of coaching. Not every member is belittled and the ones that are are usually slipping through the cracks and not holding up their weight. What the Emmerts bring is a complete display of unfiltered emotion... and you know what... I think that is directly displayed in PRs performances at the end of the year. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dcvet95 Posted August 24, 2011 Share Posted August 24, 2011 (edited) Double post Edited August 24, 2011 by dcvet95 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PhantomCav Posted August 24, 2011 Share Posted August 24, 2011 These are all good points and I actually tend to agree. I think there is a balance. I don't think that calling a kid F'ing fat is appropriate at all. I just have a fear as a teacher myself of being accused of being too hard on kids when in fact its kind of my teaching style. Now, I'm not like Knight at all and don't like to cuss kids and all that. But I do think that kids, especially kids that already are tough like drum corps kids, need a little lightning bolt from Zeus ONCE IN A WHILE, so to speak to wake them up and challenge them further. And I can kind of have a coach's type approach to rehearsal. That's all. There is a balance. My philosophy is this. The needs of the students are met by the teacher, not the other way around. If I need the kids to be good for my ego, then I might get a little too abrasive. On the other hand, if I need the kids to like me and be my friend, then I can get too soft. As long as I remember that I am there to serve them, then I think I can find that balance. I'm not there to coddle and be their friend and I am not there to abuse them for my own benefit. I'm there to be their teacher. That all seems pretty reasonable to me. I agree that there should ideally be a balance. The bosses should still be the bosses, and sometimes there are some real frustrating cases when you have that many youth together. Discipline should certainly exist and be enforced regularly and fairly. I just don't think it sounds like the Emmerts' versions of those "lightening bolts" you speak of are the best way to achieve their objectives. I could be wrong...they're the professionals in this field, after all. I'm most certainly not. I'm just a fan who has chatted some people up on the issue. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PhantomCav Posted August 24, 2011 Share Posted August 24, 2011 I wasn't trying get ammo for an argument. I'm sure there is some truth behind what you've heard. I believe that there are at least as many members (if not many more) that actually enjoy this type of coaching. Not every member is belittled and the ones that are are usually slipping through the cracks and not holding up their weight. What the Emmerts bring is a complete display of unfiltered emotion... and you know what... I think that is directly displayed in PRs performances at the end of the year. I would guess the members who enjoy that type of coaching are the ones who don't bear the direct brunt of some of the more personal elements, but you may be right. And you may also be right about the effects of their unfiltered emotion. But they're also still working with kids, so there should always be certain levels of restraint, IMO. I personally believe that those restraints should include not totally berating a person's ability or intelligence openly in front of his/her peers. Criticism is fine. Even better in private. Humiliation? Not sure that ever really has a positive effect in such a setting, and it should take some pretty serious insubordination to merit even considering it. Again, just my personal opinion and philosophy. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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