JimF-LowBari Posted November 19, 2011 Share Posted November 19, 2011 (edited) (1) a corps goes undefeated, wins VFW prelims, then falls to 10th because of a "uniform malfunction" during inspection in finals.........daddy tries to explain to his 9 year old son why a broken belt buckle can/should cost the best corps 9 places in the show, even if the audience didn't see inspection............. (3) a rule is created during 1976 for the disqualification of any corps wearing a "non-military" uniform, and the Bayonne Bridgemen are disqualified at VFW prelims.. later on, the Velvet Knights are disqualified as well........... (5) There is one company that makes valve-rotor horns, and since they are the only game in town, they now cost 6 times what other brass instruments do...... (6) A request by the Phantom Regiment and Madison Scouts to go to California during the season is refused by VFW/AL...."you will stay in your region until nationals" is the response given. No appeal is available. (8) VFW/AL allows the Troopers and Argonne Rebels to travel due to geographic reasons. The other corps sue VFW/AL for granting "special privileges" to these corps..... The other corps prevail. Troopers and Argonne are forced to compete in their region only, and VFW/AL has to fork out much money as a result of the suits. GB EDIT: I misread the post..... but leaving my dumb response in... #1 too lazy to look - what year? #3 Funny I see Bridgemen listed as coming in 3rd at Finals #5 what year was this? #6/#8 When did AL/VFW have any say in where the corps went other than the Nationals? VFW had Regions? Edited November 19, 2011 by JimF-LowBari 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bob984 Posted November 19, 2011 Share Posted November 19, 2011 #1 too lazy to look - what year? #3 Funny I see Bridgemen listed as coming in 3rd at Finals #5 what year was this? #6/#8 When did AL/VFW have any say in where the corps went other than the Nationals? VFW had Regions? You misread things.....I said that these are things I imagine "could have" happened if DCI was never formed and VFW/AL remained the 2 biggest shows and rule makers...... That said.... (1) there were years where a corps lost a major show, or prelims (and a few times, SEVERAL places) due to inspection....... (2) there was never a year that a uniform style was outlawed.....however, when Bayonne introduced that uniform in 1976, it caused quite a stir, especially among "traditional" folks............keep in mind that the Bridgemen had worn a very traditional military-style uniform prior to 1976........ (5) (again, hypothetical.....however, when they changed to any key horns a few years ago, there were only a few companies left making G bugles, and they cost as much or more than Bb horns............I was a corps member when they went from one valve/valve rotor to two valve horns........within a few years, nobody was making valve rotor anymore that I know of..........if VFW/AL never approved additional valves, which is a possibility, there may have only been one or 2 manufacturers after awhile....therefore, a serious possibility of price hikes......... (6-8) AL/VFW didn't have "touring" rules........however, I would not have been surprised if they and others (UOEC, Midwest, and other associations) would have tried to pass such rules in the future......there was much complaining that certain regions were "favored" at VFW............the Troopers were the first corps who toured regularly and almost exclusively, due to the lack of proximity to shows with major competitors.........at a time when nobody else was doing that. VFW didn't have regionals or regions per say, but both they and AL moved their title shows around almost as much as DCI did, in a time when making a cross-continent (or even half way) trip was monumental for a corps. 1963 VFW Nationals were held in SEATTLE, and thus only a few major competitors made the trip....... The bottom line is this.........some try to infer that the "good ole days" were "Eutopia" in terms of how things worked and were set-up.........the truth is that DCI would have never happened if things were so ideal then, and there were more than a few folks who thought change was needed..........we can only speculate what would have happened if DCI was never formed...........the older I get, this seems to work well for me..... (1) it is fine to remember the great times and days of the past (2) avoiding mistakes from the past can be quite beneficial (3) trying to make today good is never a bad idea..... (4) there are still great things (and great people) out there today......including kids......... (5) be glad if you are around tomorrow, and hopefully there will be some great things down the road, too.... Unfortunately, some are still stuck at the end of step 1............keep in mind I'm 54, not 20, so I can say that with experience.... GB 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GUARDLING Posted November 19, 2011 Share Posted November 19, 2011 as much as DCI is not what it claims to be at times Drum Corps would have never survived without the formation of DCI. Everyone seems to forget that DCI is merely the wants and re- development of the corps them selves. People seem to think its totally seperate. If the corps as a whole wanted to re structure or even get rid of DCI as it is it would be very easy just as it was to be done with VFW / Legions. VFWs, Legions, Church groups, civic groups in 2011 can barely survive them selves and have dwindled to almost nothing in this country let alone be able to support something like the Drum Corps activity. If it were left as it was way back in 72 I would think our activity would have been dead and gone long ago...JMO 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JimF-LowBari Posted November 19, 2011 Share Posted November 19, 2011 (edited) You misread things.....I said that these are things I imagine "could have" happened if DCI was never formed and VFW/AL remained the 2 biggest shows and rule makers...... ...keep in mind I'm 54, not 20, so I can say that with experience.... GB OK my bad, I read what you put in the numbers and got so interested I missed the intro.. LOL, I'm 54 also and can dig where the last part of this post came from. Also way interested in early (before my time) corps history and can see some of your points. Thing to remember about AL/VFW is the lack of shows they were actually involved in. Only real AL/VFW shows were connected with a state or the national convention. Would be kinda like DCI having Finals but leaving other groups run regular season shows. And yeppers on AL/VFW not being as big or strong as the past. Biggest groups ever in them were WWI (none left) and WWII vets (rapidly losing them). Wow, a -2 for misreading.... Edited November 19, 2011 by JimF-LowBari 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
garfield Posted November 19, 2011 Share Posted November 19, 2011 Here you go again G, off in a side conversation with Ream without adult supervision.......and discussing percents and fractions to boot. Don't make me turn this thread around. BTW, the 99% don't look at you two with confusion.....they look at you with archaeologist tools! :-) I can always count on you for witty, sardonic comments, Plan. Kudos. Was wondering if I might drag you out of the cave! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
madalumni Posted November 19, 2011 Share Posted November 19, 2011 It's always the eyes. And a belated happy birthday. Thank you! But you're either 11 months late or a month early.... mine's on December 26th. :) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Michael Boo Posted November 19, 2011 Share Posted November 19, 2011 Thank you! But you're either 11 months late or a month early.... mine's on December 26th. :) I'm a month early, of course. No, wait...I said it was belated birthday wishes. Okay, I'm eleven months late. So sue me. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
oldskl3rings Posted November 19, 2011 Share Posted November 19, 2011 The idea that DCI is run by the corps, is false. In the beginning DCI was controlled by only the top corps. The smaller corps had no say in the decisions made by DCI. Since its inception DCI has made two critical and related errors. DCI ignored the needs of the smaller corps and its obsession with the national tour model. This led to the demise of all of the smaller corps and even a good number of the top ones. In fact, of the original top twelve DCI corps, eight no longer exist. It was suicide by inept management. By letting the smaller corps perish, DCI lost a feeder source for members, fans and show venues. Add to that DCI’s never ending need to evolve the activity by adding expensive and unnecessary instruments and electronic do dads, DCI continues to play a perverse game of Russian roulette. In reality DCI has never been interested in performing for the fans. In 1972 when I marched in the first DCI we were told to impress, not the fans, but the people sitting in “the box”. Play to the box; sell the show to the box, that’s what we were told by every instructor. Drills have never been designed to impress the fans, but the box. How many fans can actually sit high enough to see and appreciate all the fancy pictures and moves? I’d like to see a drill designed to impress the fans sitting in the third row from the bottom. The fact that DCI now realizes it has to entertain and build its fan base may be the case of too little too late. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DrillmanSop06 Posted November 19, 2011 Share Posted November 19, 2011 AL/VFW have separate, different missions. Drum corps would not be a priority for them today. If it wasn't DCI, it would be something else...which would essentially be the same thing; a governing body for drum corps. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JimF-LowBari Posted November 20, 2011 Share Posted November 20, 2011 (edited) AL/VFW have separate, different missions. Drum corps would not be a priority for them today. If it wasn't DCI, it would be something else...which would essentially be the same thing; a governing body for drum corps. Read your post cuz the subtrack is interesting to me. And I'd go further and say that corps wasn't that big of a priority back then either. I'd say more inportant to the sponsoring Posts than the national orgrnization. What's missing in the discussions of AL/VFW Nations (and I missed it too) was that the DC show was only part of the convention. And since VFW dropped the Sr portion, then the corps show was more designed to be part of the convertions entertainment. Long story short, we corps people made more out of the corps show than the AL/VFW did. Used to read my dads 70s AL magazine and I can remember a pic of the Jr and a pic of the Sr winners with a line or two of who sponsored them and that was it. Hell 1978 they switched the captions on the pics. To get a real idea AL/VFW and corps connections you'd have to go start to the end of WWI and start of AL (1919) and go from there. And yes, as times and circumstances changed the role of AL/VFW changed. And as the AL/VFW (Posts and National) couldn't/wouldn't change to what the corps felt they needed then DCI and DCA were created. DCI came from problems with the VFW and DCA from problems with the AL. Edited November 20, 2011 by JimF-LowBari Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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