What's with all the hate for BD

[danielray]

Not true for say NASCAR 5 time in a row champion Jimmy Johnson and his team.

He's humble because the reality is that is really great at driving a souped up version of the same car my grandma drives.

[danielray]

So, Dan Acheson was lying about the history of DCI when he wrote:

"... Drum Corps International's 38-year history, which in its very own mission statement claims to be *a cooperative fraternity of its member drum corps*... one of the truly spectacular aspects of DCI's fraternal dynamic is that no matter the background, no matter the different points of view, no matter the underlying competitiveness, *there has always been compassionate resolve in the end that serves the entire collective*. Because of recent governance related events, these passionate corps leaders have a long way to go to come back together *as a cooperative fraternity* in order to determine a direction for the future..."

They allow girls now.

[Tim K]

I’ve never been the biggest Blue Devils fan, and probably never will be, but it’s not due to my belief that BD is an evil organization. It’s more due to their musical choices. For me, it’s purely a matter of taste. Sure, I’ve had some disagreement with final scores and placements. I was a diehard 27^th Lancer fan back in the day with Phantom Regiment as my default favorite. The most striking disagreement would be the 1980 victory. I recall watching DCI thanks to PBS and when 27^th took the field, I was nervous as to whether they had performed the winning show, but George Zingali was interviewed after the performance and he was thrilled with the performance. I had heard he was a perfectionist (I later learned that’s an understatement) so I figured 27^th had it in the bag. When the Blue Devils took the field, their show was lackluster, especially in comparison a live show the previous week (CYO Nationals). I was all but dancing in the streets until the scores were announced and the Blue Devils won.

My trip down memory lane is not meant to reopen a decades old debate of who should have won in 1980, but I think it does illustrate a point. The Blue Devils understand and probably admit that “shows” are really competitions, with judges, and they understand what judges are looking for and respond accordingly. This was the case under the tick system, and it’s the case in the more subjective judging today. They set out to win and they win.

We can be quick to criticize BD for always winning, and similar criticisms were leveled against Star of Indiana who boldly set out to win, achieved their objective, and disappeared. However, it does seem that their greatest fault is the fact they are so competitive and successful in competition, I*f anything, they should be congratulated for mastering a system and also setting a standard, after all, everyone wants to beat the Blue Devils, and hopefully in 2012, Boston Crusaders and Carolina Crown will do just that!

[Tim K]

If we look at drum corps from a historical perspective, corps had their days of glory and fell from glory. While for some corps mismanagement was an issue, for most corps, increasing costs led to their demise. Twenty years ago, development directors and endowments for corps would have been unheard of, today it’s a matter of survival. DCI did create super-elite, there’s no question about it, but DCI also created standard judging, standards created by people who understand marching, music, and performance. My hunch is thug if DCI did not exist, drum corps would be nothing but a quaint memory.

As to whether George Bonfiglio got what he deserved in 1986, you probably need to reread some of the earlier posts about 27^th. I never marched with 27^th, but in the Northeast, everyone in a competitive marching unit knew members of 27^th, North Star, and BAC. Metro Boston is a small area filled with people who love who share stories. Everyone knew you didn’t cross 27^th, and you probably would not win an argument with the famed George Bonfiglio, but more often than not, people knew he was right. While he was a strong leader, and at times controversial, his generosity to the people in his corps is legion and his personal sacrifices to keep the Lancers on the field are legendary. A priest colleague who ran a CYO corps once told me he had a mediocre at best member who was getting himself into trouble. The only solution was to get him out of the area away from the friends who were bad influences. 27^th was touring so he called George B and the kid became a 27^th Lancer. If titles and power in DCI was what mattered most to George B., the corps might still exist today, but it would not have been the storied and beloved organization so many love and remember.

i guess some could look at it that way

[GUARDLING]

If we look at drum corps from a historical perspective, corps had their days of glory and fell from glory. While for some corps mismanagement was an issue, for most corps, increasing costs led to their demise. Twenty years ago, development directors and endowments for corps would have been unheard of, today it’s a matter of survival. DCI did create super-elite, there’s no question about it, but DCI also created standard judging, standards created by people who understand marching, music, and performance. My hunch is thug if DCI did not exist, drum corps would be nothing but a quaint memory.

As to whether George Bonfiglio got what he deserved in 1986, you probably need to reread some of the earlier posts about 27^th. I never marched with 27^th, but in the Northeast, everyone in a competitive marching unit knew members of 27^th, North Star, and BAC. Metro Boston is a small area filled with people who love who share stories. Everyone knew you didn’t cross 27^th, and you probably would not win an argument with the famed George Bonfiglio, but more often than not, people knew he was right. While he was a strong leader, and at times controversial, his generosity to the people in his corps is legion and his personal sacrifices to keep the Lancers on the field are legendary. A priest colleague who ran a CYO corps once told me he had a mediocre at best member who was getting himself into trouble. The only solution was to get him out of the area away from the friends who were bad influences. 27^th was touring so he called George B and the kid became a 27^th Lancer. If titles and power in DCI was what mattered most to George B., the corps might still exist today, but it would not have been the storied and beloved organization so many love and remember.

i know the history quite well..all I was saying was that some ( corps that didnt survive the new DCI ) could feel as a few of the big dogs also fell by the way side or couldnt keep up with the animal that was started...many did feel that a few got what they deserved. I for 1 was a huge 27 fan although I was and then taught other corps. These men were loved and by some hated. Many questioned motives..HMMMM Kinda like some of the directors wanting to go into a new direction today HUH?

[Piper]

Being at the top isn't always a bowl of blueberries. When you're #1 you're the one to beat. Everybody's out gunning for you. Climbing to the top of a mountain is one thing - how long you can stay there is a different matter entirely. BD has done a pretty good job at that.

[InspaDave]

At what point does criticism, valid or not, become "hate"?

What? You can't answer that question? Sure you can. The answer is that remarks can be criticism and "hate" at the same time. Drum corps beauty is in the ear and eye of the beholder. Some people like BD, and some don't. Just like with other polarizing topics (religion) one side will never be able to convince the other that they are right/wrong. Enjoy the corps you like, and respect the members of the corps you don't.

Do I get tired of seeing the Blue Devils win frequently? Sure, but until someone can beat them (Yes. I know Cadets won last year) they will continue to succeed. I do not care for '09 and '10, but 2011 BD has been getting the most play be me.

[MotorCityMusician]

I love BD

[corps8294]

I find a bit of humor in this thread. Just imagine if this was geared towards one of the corps at the bottom of world class; I can just imagine the responses...

"Don't be hating on those poor kids." "Way to put down a corps that's already down and out." "Another cheap shot." What's the difference between being critical of a corps at the very top of world class vs. one at the very bottom? Fire away ladies and gents.

Edited December 31, 2011 by shortn'sour

[Plan9]

I reply to this interesting thread for two reasons:

1) If I didn't... some would suspect that I had been absconded into the "extraordinary rendition" program and was in a basement somewhere in the Ukraine (sorry Jeff....I'm not).

2) Michael Boo's post #48 is perhaps the best compilation of my thinking (and many other BD fans) on the subject that leaves me little room to expand, but it primed my pump. Besides...that's why these things should be left in the hands of professionals.

NOTE: Another profound post comes from my friend FSUBONE who in his own way describes the perceptions (real or imagined) that are pervasive in and out of the competing DCI community......."these guys don't wear their dominant position well". I know this is a real perception and it's clear that it flavors many BD responses evidenced by the almost immediate departure into the G7 discussion. In short, for many, there simply can't be a separation of show/performance and atmosphere surrounding BD....it sticks to them like an unfair odor. The only way out is to remove the thing that makes it so....their winning ways!

A word about their designs that seemingly come from a secret well that no one else has found. To me, it's baffling...year after year, it's relentless. So relentless that IMO, their return to quasi-normal in 2011 was a course correction "necessary" (nearly pleaded for) because they were leaving a portion of the fan base behind. This is NOT said in an elitist manner, but as one who marvels at how often "new and different" is seen as mockery of tradition. Yet my biggest surprise has been the anger that such an effort is met with so often on here. The pure fact is: Dozens of corps year after year putting traditional designs filled with memorable moments and great music/visual production line up in the competitive order, touching the historic bones of FMM and just plain fans....then one corps departs the radar screen to exercise different viewing and listening muscles and it's like an attack on the activity. Certainly made worse by their competitive results. I say...let's celebrate different, explore why the dissonance and defractive visual presence of BD 2010 gave us such emotional impact (some shocking, some mind blowing, some puzzling and even some beautifully rewarding). Give it its place and encourage more to do the same.

Edited December 31, 2011 by Plan9