D&BC on America's Got Talent(?)

[Michael Boo]

I never marched in a Drum and Bugle Corps - I was in a marching band and learned about corps because they were what we aspired to be. I have loved corps since 1980 after an incredible experience at DCI North in Michigan.

I look at everyone who does this activity with envy and pride. From the smallest to the largest most skilled group you are all doing (have done) something that I wish I had done.

I hear the stories about your experience. I pay close attention to the stories regarding personalities that have moulded you into the people that you have become. One can't help but be moved by people like Gail Royer, Bill Cook and countless others who have contributed so much to this activity.

I have every DVD ever offered not to mention countless CDs and MP3s (sometimes up to 6 different corps shows during a season). I buy the Fan Network pass every year and sit in on every Internet live broadcast I can.

Up until they stopped having a show in Montreal, I was always there. If friends couldn't join me, I sat in the stands, sometimes in pouring rain because it was my only chance during the year to see whomever came to Montreal.

Everyone who does/has done this activity is lucky - Every single person!

So please, if the Edge is going to do something like this I'm going to watch and I'm going to support what they are doing because I can't help but think how lucky they are.

You are why there is a drum corps activity.

[MikeM]

I never marched in a Drum and Bugle Corps - I was in a marching band and learned about corps because they were what we aspired to be. I have loved corps since 1980 after an incredible experience at DCI North in Michigan.

I look at everyone who does this activity with envy and pride. From the smallest to the largest most skilled group you are all doing (have done) something that I wish I had done.

I hear the stories about your experience. I pay close attention to the stories regarding personalities that have moulded you into the people that you have become. One can't help but be moved by people like Gail Royer, Bill Cook and countless others who have contributed so much to this activity.

I have every DVD ever offered not to mention countless CDs and MP3s (sometimes up to 6 different corps shows during a season). I buy the Fan Network pass every year and sit in on every Internet live broadcast I can.

Up until they stopped having a show in Montreal, I was always there. If friends couldn't join me, I sat in the stands, sometimes in pouring rain because it was my only chance during the year to see whomever came to Montreal.

Everyone who does/has done this activity is lucky - Every single person!

So please, if the Edge is going to do something like this I'm going to watch and I'm going to support what they are doing because I can't help but think how lucky they are.

The thread has been won, there is no need to continue.

[BRASSO]

.

Explanation: Though many posters express the opinion that one or another corps "should" have placed higher, few posters can agree on which corps should be demoted in order to promote the "under-scored" corps.

HH

And of course, they'd be silly to make such an attempt. Even Caption Judges don't go off the reservation and state " what Corps should have placed higher or lower in the final placement ". That'd be irresponsible and beyond their abilities for them to do so. Judges can only speak to their Caption alone. They score the Caption they have training, experience in. Nobody that is reasonable, for example, believes a Percussion Judge can evaluate and place properly, for example, the Guard in competition. Or that a Guard judge can evaluate drumming, score drumming, and place drumming. And of course this is true with fans as well.Fans can't tell us who should have placed where. Only perhaps in a Caption they might have experience and training in... and even that is dicey when done from the vantage point of the stands. Fans that are not equally trained and experienced in Visual, Brass, Percussion and Guard can't place Corps. Plus, what fan can simultaneously take in with the eyes and ears the entire show performance, and all the captions in eqaninmity ?. They can't. Nobody can. Its nonsense to think otherwise, imo. So we ( if we're savvy ) reject out of hand, any fan that believes they are qualified to make a judgement on placements. Like I said, even Caption judges can't tell us what the show placements and placement spreads should be beyond their own caption. Its simply beyond all ( fans and judges ) abilities to attempt to do so. The only thing a fan is qualified to speak on is their own personal " enjoyment level placements". And for me personally, it is THE single most important "placement" measure.

Edited January 28, 2012 by BRASSO

[BRASSO]

If I were a Zen Master, I'd say YES. It's the only thing that matters in LIFE.

If you read Zen and the Art of Motorcycle Maintenance, you'd know what I mean (Quality).

If you're going to do ANYTHING in life, do it with Excellence (Gail Royer)/Quality (Robert Pirsig).

It's that simple, yet lost on so many. It also assumes the teachers are willing/able to judge the student on the excellence in effort, as well as achievement. For sure, the

Before we get sidtracked on " Zen ", Mortorcycle Maintainance, and so forth, can we get back to the topic at hand where this group will be judged in relationship to other non Drum Corps groups, and will be evaluated for " excellence " in this competition by, among others,.................. Howard Stern ?

Perspective here people. Perspective. Any group that is going to be judged for " excellence " by Howard Stern needs to have our collective prayers and/ or best wishes, you know ? I say :.... there, but for the Grace of God, go I. They've got WAY more stones than me to make this attempt.

Edited January 28, 2012 by BRASSO

[Bruckner8]

Before we get sidtracked on " Zen ", Mortorcycle Maintainance, and so forth, can we get back to the topic at hand where this group will be judged in relationship to other non Drum Corps groups, and will be evaluated in this competition by, among others,.................. Howard Stern ?

Perspective here people. Perspective.

Sure, I'll bite. Let's start by listing the attributes that judges like Howard Stern might be looking for:

Wackiness? (Check!)

Freak Show? (Check!)

Exhibitionism? (Check!)

Personality? (Check! Although there might be too many to focus on, lol!)

Loud and Obnoxious? (Let's hope so! It's DCA!)

Uniqueness? (Check!)

Looks like a smashing success to me!

(I'm not being flip, in case anyone's wondering)

[BRASSO]

Sure, I'll bite. Let's start by listing the attributes that judges like Howard Stern might be looking for:

Wackiness? (Check!)

Freak Show? (Check!)

Exhibitionism? (Check!)

Personality? (Check! Although there might be too many to focus on, lol!)

Loud and Obnoxious? (Let's hope so! It's DCA!)

Uniqueness? (Check!)

Looks like a smashing success to me!

(I'm not being flip, in case anyone's wondering)

So accepting this premise of yours here ( for discussion sake only )... then how does this effect or impact the " excellence " of the DCI organization or DCI Corps ? ( or DCA ). I guess I 'm totally missing why you are so angry and flummoxed by this group's quest to compete with other non Drum Corps groups on " America's Got Talent " ? Why do you care if it's a success or not for them. Where is the downside here for YOU ? As near as I can tell, this quest has nothing at all to do with you at all. So why does this seem to bother you so much ?

Edited January 28, 2012 by BRASSO

[Bruckner8]

So accepting this premise of yours here ( for discussion sake only )... then how does this effect or impact the " excellence " of the DCI organization or DCI Corps ? ( or DCA ). I guess I 'm totally missing why you are so angry and flummoxed by this group's quest to compete with other non Drum Corps groups on " America's Got Talent " among judges like Howard Stern ? Why do you care if it's a success or not for them. Where is the downside here for YOU ? As near as I can tell, this quest has nothing at all to do with you at all. So why does this seem to bother you so much ?

I'm not bothered by any of this. I come here for amusement, and sometimes teach, always learn. I'm not angry. Flabbergasted sometimes, lol, at the emotion/logic demonstrated, but that's half the fun.

All I did was claim that THE VIDEO, as presented by the *OP* wasn't a good measure of Excellence! (esp compared to the title of THIS FORUM)

I couldn't care less if The Edge went on TV! More power to them; I hope they blow everyone away!

But let's go over a few truths, to set the record straight:

-The OP is advertising this opportunity,drumming up hype (Good!)

-The OP says "sent in a video"

-The OP links to a video at the end, in a way that felt to me like "Hey everyone, check this out! Isn't this great!?"

-The OP is in DCI World Class Forum

From there, I inserted my OPINION that DCI World Class is the epitome of Excellence. Then I watched the video. The dichotomy struck me, and I posted my concern.

Since then, there have been comments supportive of The Edge, like so (paraphrased):

"So what if it isn't excellent, at least [blah blah]"

"I'm sure the video they sent in is better than this one"

"It was the end of Mini-Corps, an Encore!"

"I've seen it better at other times"

Hmm...looks like tacit (and direct) confirmation...

And of course, we had the litany of posts sympathetic to the "entertainment factors" and "the star power," all of which deflect focus from the Excellence aspect, or completely discount it! (Valid choice, BTW...it *is* AGT after all!)

This has been 100% logical exercise for me. Obviously, it's a lot more emotional for others. I can watch videos of myself and say "Yikes, that isn't excellent." Nothing more than objective logic. I might even have valid reasons, but it doesn't change the truth, lol.

[BRASSO]

I'm not bothered by any of this. I come here for amusement, and sometimes teach, always learn. I'm not angry. Flabbergasted sometimes, lol, at the emotion/logic demonstrated, but that's half the fun.

All I did was claim that THE VIDEO, as presented by the *OP* wasn't a good measure of Excellence! (esp compared to the title of THIS FORUM)

I couldn't care less if The Edge went on TV! More power to them; I hope they blow everyone away!

But let's go over a few truths, to set the record straight:

-The OP is advertising this opportunity,drumming up hype (Good!)

-The OP says "sent in a video"

-The OP links to a video at the end, in a way that felt to me like "Hey everyone, check this out! Isn't this great!?"

-The OP is in DCI World Class Forum

From there, I inserted my OPINION that DCI World Class is the epitome of Excellence. Then I watched the video. The dichotomy struck me, and I posted my concern.

Since then, there have been comments supportive of The Edge, like so (paraphrased):

"So what if it isn't excellent, at least [blah blah]"

"I'm sure the video they sent in is better than this one"

"It was the end of Mini-Corps, an Encore!"

"I've seen it better at other times"

Hmm...looks like tacit (and direct) confirmation...

And of course, we had the litany of posts sympathetic to the "entertainment factors" and "the star power," all of which deflect focus from the Excellence aspect, or completely discount it! (Valid choice, BTW...it *is* AGT after all!)

This has been 100% logical exercise for me. Obviously, it's a lot more emotional for others. I can watch videos of myself and say "Yikes, that isn't excellent." Nothing more than objective logic. I might even have valid reasons, but it doesn't change the truth, lol.

Well, by this standard, I'll be anticipating your critical analysis on last years DCI video clips from a Corps or two that you may not have felt fit your personal definition of " excellence " and using that video clip to comment on this years Corps show and why it probably will fall far short of your personal need to have " excellence " portrayed in this year's show. Last year in preseason, I saw a Cadets musical video short clip that they had on their website. I did not like the music at all.It's quality for excellence seemed thoroughly subpar to me for The Cadets usual high standards. In June, I was only marginally impressed. But by August Finals, the whole thing was polished, cleaned, rewritten in parts, and in the end it was brilliantly integrated, and it all worked. But at least I was comparing the same Corps and music. Making a judgment on something from last Sept and extrapolating that degree level of " excellence " to what might occur THIS year, is frankly stupid. There, I said it. Its stupid to judge something UNSEEN and UNHEARD this year from something seen or heard from last year. And this year's shows havn't even arrived yet. Neither " The Edge ", nor DCI ( or DCA ) Corps shows for this season are out for your judgment yet. You ( nor anyone else ) is in a position to judge this stage production ( one way or the other ) in competition with other non Drum Corps yet. Thats not arrogance to try and do so. Thats more in the stupid realm, imo. Since when does a video clip by a hand held camera from LAST YEAR represent what a Corps or musical group will do THIS YEAR in terms of show design and performance quality ?

Edited January 28, 2012 by BRASSO

[whitedawn]

This is the single most fiercely logical post I've ever seen on DCP. Good show.

I'm not bothered by any of this. I come here for amusement, and sometimes teach, always learn. I'm not angry. Flabbergasted sometimes, lol, at the emotion/logic demonstrated, but that's half the fun.

All I did was claim that THE VIDEO, as presented by the *OP* wasn't a good measure of Excellence! (esp compared to the title of THIS FORUM)

I couldn't care less if The Edge went on TV! More power to them; I hope they blow everyone away!

But let's go over a few truths, to set the record straight:

-The OP is advertising this opportunity,drumming up hype (Good!)

-The OP says "sent in a video"

-The OP links to a video at the end, in a way that felt to me like "Hey everyone, check this out! Isn't this great!?"

-The OP is in DCI World Class Forum

From there, I inserted my OPINION that DCI World Class is the epitome of Excellence. Then I watched the video. The dichotomy struck me, and I posted my concern.

Since then, there have been comments supportive of The Edge, like so (paraphrased):

"So what if it isn't excellent, at least [blah blah]"

"I'm sure the video they sent in is better than this one"

"It was the end of Mini-Corps, an Encore!"

"I've seen it better at other times"

Hmm...looks like tacit (and direct) confirmation...

And of course, we had the litany of posts sympathetic to the "entertainment factors" and "the star power," all of which deflect focus from the Excellence aspect, or completely discount it! (Valid choice, BTW...it *is* AGT after all!)

This has been 100% logical exercise for me. Obviously, it's a lot more emotional for others. I can watch videos of myself and say "Yikes, that isn't excellent." Nothing more than objective logic. I might even have valid reasons, but it doesn't change the truth, lol.

[whitedawn]

Since when does a video clip by a hand held camera from LAST year represent what a Corps or musical group will do THIS year in terms of show design and performance quality ?

My understanding is that the video is of this group's final performance of the season. Therefore, it is not a leap in logic to infer that this is pretty much as good as this group gets, performance-wise.

Unless they have changed design teams and are rehearsing much more/more effectively, there is very little reason to assume that they will get much better than what was presented.

Look, I hope they do well and have fun. I just don't want the viewing public (or at least the very small number of people who watch NBC) to think that drum corps is "adults doing marching band," because that's not the image I have or that I want other people to have.