splat-a-drag-a-phonium Posted March 12, 2012 Share Posted March 12, 2012 I don’t have a single clue what it would take for Crown to win a title and to be perfectly honest I will still be a “Crown Homer” in the event they never win a title in their history during my lifetime. I believe their place in history and in their fans hearts are not defined by how many trophies that will ever reside in the Fort Mill office. That said; I bet everyone is doing everything they can working toward a goal. I have personally heard many, many good things at the past 2 camps from the brass and percussion from the early stages of the show development. What’s wrong with being great, entertaining and fun? 4 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Corbin Posted March 12, 2012 Author Share Posted March 12, 2012 I don’t have a single clue what it would take for Crown to win a title and to be perfectly honest I will still be a “Crown Homer” in the event they never win a title in their history during my lifetime. I believe their place in history and in their fans hearts are not defined by how many trophies that will ever reside in the Fort Mill office. That said; I bet everyone is doing everything they can working toward a goal. I have personally heard many, many good things at the past 2 camps from the brass and percussion from the early stages of the show development. What’s wrong with being great, entertaining and fun? Nothing is wrong at all with entertainment and fun. But what do you mean by "great"? You seem to give the impression that most of Crown's current members are simply there for these purposes. Maybe they are, but if drum corps was solely about these attributes, then why have competition at all, judge shows, or hand out trophies? Furthermore, my don't most members who are now part of the Crown organization go to Pioneer or other corps that have little chance of winning a title. Again, the impression that you seem to give is that competitiveness is not a major part of the activity. In reality, it is. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
whitedawn Posted March 12, 2012 Share Posted March 12, 2012 (edited) I complete agree with your opinion, but you would not believe the die-hard former and present Crown members who consider this a kind of treason to say this, especially those that are active on DCP during the actual season. What is opinion does is to confirm that Crown does indeed suffer from some design flaws and these are staff rather than member related. Thank you for at least some support. Eh, it's hard to see when you are so close to it. At the top level, if you *don't* believe that you are the best, then what are you actually doing? Winning titles requires a winning design, a winning staff, and a group of kids who buy in to what the self is selling. Crown has for the last few years had #2 and #3, but haven't come close to getting #1 in lockdown. In 2009, they made an entire show out of tunes that won championships for (or otherwise helped define the identities of) other corps. In the abstract, this isn't exactly a great idea. Edited March 12, 2012 by whitedawn Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Corbin Posted March 13, 2012 Author Share Posted March 13, 2012 Eh, it's hard to see when you are so close to it. At the top level, if you *don't* believe that you are the best, then what are you actually doing? Winning titles requires a winning design, a winning staff, and a group of kids who buy in to what the self is selling. Crown has for the last few years had #2 and #3, but haven't come close to getting #1 in lockdown. In 2009, they made an entire show out of tunes that won championships for (or otherwise helped define the identities of) other corps. In the abstract, this isn't exactly a great idea. To address the very last part of your comment, the music of 2009 was not a significant issue for the judges or the fans, so this seems part seems to be out in left field, as Crown took high brass. As far as addressing the middle of your comment, some of the staff is up to the challenge and has the teaching ability to see Crown a champion, some do not. The kids have been the highlight of Crown's past few years. Design is an issue, but again that is a staffing problem. Hopefully with a few of the staff changes that have been made recently, Crown can address this difficulty. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
skajerk Posted March 13, 2012 Share Posted March 13, 2012 I know some won't agree with me, but as long as they keep putting out shows like they have the past few years that have now become some of my favorites, I don't care if they win. Guess that explains why Suncoast is still my all-time favorite corps. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cainan Posted March 13, 2012 Share Posted March 13, 2012 Somebody else here said it... Have THE show... Up until now, they simply haven't had it. No knock on the performers or the organisation. The last few years for Crown have been truly special. They have gone from being good to being elite. That said... In any given year there are mabey 2-3 shows that have that certain something... that je ne sais quoi... that sets them apart from the field. Last year it was clear that it was the Cadets championship to lose right out of the gate. Another example would be their 1987 show. Vanguard was beautiful, Vanguard was huge, but Garfield... that show was truly something special. That show, that night those 11 minutes were something to truly behold. Carolina Crown will get there. I have no doubt. The quality of their performers is easily on par with any of the other championship contenders. It's just simply a matter of the stars aligning just right... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
soccerguy315 Posted March 13, 2012 Share Posted March 13, 2012 (edited) from a member point of view, there is really not much you can do... the only thing drum corps members can do is give their best each time they run a rep in rehearsal, take the feedback, and give their best again on the next rep. At some point in the list of DCI world class corps, there is a talent issue in the membership, but I honestly don't believe the talent gap is that pronounced. The members are very fluid. The staff is the consistent part. It's very obvious that Cavaliers, Cadets, and BD have extremely minimal staff turnover, while all the other corps are bringing in new people each off season in the hope that those people will help them be more successful competitively. If you gave the 12th place members from 2011 the Cadets 2011 show and staff, I think they would still finish very highly. Now, I think you might see the talent gap here, and I don't think the hypothetical Cadets with the 12th place membership would win, but I bet they would be within a few points and would likely still finish in the top 4. So, regarding Crown, I don't think there is a noticeable talent gap between BD, Cavaliers, Cadets, and Crown. But there is a gap on the design side. And it's not bashing, it's just reality. It is hard to close the design gap, because BD/Cavaliers/Cadets have won every single championship (with the exception of 2008) for the last 20 years. It is much harder to design a championship show than to find championship level performers. Crown has the performers. The only thing a member can do is do their best every chance they get. The rest is really out of their hands. Edited March 13, 2012 by soccerguy315 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mellodramatic Posted March 13, 2012 Share Posted March 13, 2012 In 2009, they made an entire show out of tunes that won championships for (or otherwise helped define the identities of) other corps. In the abstract, this isn't exactly a great idea. I think you mean 2008. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
corpsband Posted March 13, 2012 Share Posted March 13, 2012 (edited) To address the very last part of your comment, the music of 2009 was not a significant issue for the judges or the fans, so this seems part seems to be out in left field, as Crown took high brass. As far as addressing the middle of your comment, some of the staff is up to the challenge and has the teaching ability to see Crown a champion, some do not. The kids have been the highlight of Crown's past few years. Design is an issue, but again that is a staffing problem. Hopefully with a few of the staff changes that have been made recently, Crown can address this difficulty. FWIW I think he meant 2008. 2009 was not a "best of" show. Anyway glad to see you're feeling at least a little hopeful this season. I don't disagree with you that they've had design issues holding them back. But nearly every drum corps has the same problem as Crown in this respect. It's not easy to write "THE SHOW" year after year. Cadets and Cavaliers certainly don't do it. In fact only BD seems to design a show that the judges will consider nearly every season as "THE SHOW". So your "solution" (firing squad for the visual staff) is (IMO at least) no answer at all. Yes they're missing the mark but they're not missing by a lot and I'd expect that they're learning each time they make a mistake. And of course the question remains, who's available that would be better? Edited March 13, 2012 by corpsband Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wvu80 Posted March 13, 2012 Share Posted March 13, 2012 (edited) This discussion topic and the thoughtful replies are what I miss about the old Blue Devils Discussion Board. Intelligent opinions, really well spoken by all. +++ There is one subtle angle that has not been addressed; this year there's a rule change. All the discussion up to now is how Crown might change to win in the OLD rules system from the last several years. But the new system has been tweaked to reward engaging the crowd, and that's the unknown variable to winning THIS year. I think if Crown doesn't change a thing, their style of show is EXACTLY what can win them a title. +++ The spoiler for Crown is that the other Big Boys know how to read the rules, and how to win. Blue Devils are the current kings at knowing how to set the bar at its highest level. And even though they haven't been at the top in a while, include Vanguard with the discussion about how smart the Big Boys are. I think they are poised to POUNCE on that top notch this season. It should be a great season, if it's even CLOSE to last year's shows. Edited March 13, 2012 by wvu80 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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