GUARDLING Posted March 19, 2012 Share Posted March 19, 2012 (edited) I must disagree with this. Look at the precision of the guard books in the 70's, 80's and 90's, in addition to the actual, "Marching and maneuvering", required by the guard members. Today most guard members do not ever attend basics with the corps proper, learn any form of a marching technique, or even learn, "Eight to five." The guards from the 70's and 80's did all of this in addition to performing an 11.5-13 minute show that was largely unison work. I sat at Lucas Oil last year at Finals and watched more than one finalist guard never actually "March" and even then only have 24-36 counts of full color guard unison work their ENTIRE show. Movement/body vocabulary may be taking more of a place of importance on the field on the guard sheets of today, but if one wanted that, one could attend WGI. Most DCI guards these days do not even learn double time with rifles or double time with flags. Let's see them do 1000 counts of either, just as one facet of a typical warm-up back in the day. You think a rifle line of today could perform the rifle work from Danny Boy in 1980 with that degree of cleanliness? Or Slaughter? You stop the DVD at any point in 1980 27th Lancers or Scouts (or many other years of either), and the rifle and flag tosses are not only uniform in height, but in velocity of rotation. You do not see that at all today. Give me a flawless triple, quad, or five, caught flat with the echo of the uniform "thwappp" of the leather strap, from and entire rifle line or guard, over one featured performer chunking a 7 or 8 and catching it at an angle or worse, like catching a baby thrown from a burning building, any day. ALL the things you mention that guards today are missing is because in the guard activity ( for decades now ) it isnt required... Guards have gone way beyond being just another section of the corps. Guards have far more responsibilities to the overall design, concept,message of the overall package than ever before I myself was in one of those back in the day lines and if you go back and watch some videos of corps you speak of and I have, it was great but wanst as good as even I remember at the time. It wasnt as flawless .. We tend to have selective memories..Dont get me wrong it was hot ...especially for the time BUT since then for many years now I have taught in WGI, DCI and DCA and whats required of guards today..including excellence is far beyond what we did, just as show design has evolved over the years. This by no means takes anything aways from back in the day...its just different..but SO ARE MOST THINGS IN THE WORLD from then to now.....and why wouldnt it be...it would be a sad day if drum corps didnt evolve in over 40 years....JMO Edited March 19, 2012 by GUARDLING 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KeithHall Posted March 19, 2012 Share Posted March 19, 2012 Kingsmen....have you seen some of the pics from 1974? CLEAN!!! 27th Lancers Madison Scouts Suncoast Sound THOSE were the best! Seen any technically clean rifle lines in the past 25 years? 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
byline Posted March 19, 2012 Share Posted March 19, 2012 ALL the things you mention that guards today are missing is because in the guard activity ( for decades now ) it isnt required... Guards have gone way beyond being just another section of the corps. Guards have far more responsibilities to the overall design, concept,message of the overall package than ever before I myself was in one of those back in the day lines and if you go back and watch some videos of corps you speak of and I have, it was great but wanst as good as even I remember at the time. It wasnt as flawless .. We tend to have selective memories..Dont get me wrong it was hot ...especially for the time BUT since then for many years now I have taught in WGI, DCI and DCA and whats required of guards today..including excellence is far beyond what we did, just as show design has evolved over the years. This by no means takes anything aways from back in the day...its just different..but SO ARE MOST THINGS IN THE WORLD from then to now.....and why wouldnt it be...it would be a sad day if drum corps didnt evolve in over 40 years....JMO I agree with this. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GUARDLING Posted March 19, 2012 Share Posted March 19, 2012 I agree with this. as someone who also was part of back in the day you also may agree ( or not )..lol...although what we did was great for the time our span of vocabulary was far less then today so cleaning was a tad easier....didnt seen it at the time BUT the layered responsibility of a guard member today is unbelievable.... 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Navillus WP Posted March 19, 2012 Share Posted March 19, 2012 (edited) My heart would have to vote for the Anaheim Kingsmen rifle line. I'm sticking with 1980 Two-Seven rifle line as my first choice. (below is 1979 during "Danny Boy")... but I'll give "runner-up" award to the 1972 Anaheim Kingsmen rifle line: athleticism, precision, discipline, class. BTW, when George Bonfiglio first witnessed the Lancer rifles practicing the "lying-on the back" bit in the Fall of 1980 and ordered the rifle uniforms to include trousers ... nobody will be looking up their skirts! 1974 Anaheim KIngsmen Edited March 19, 2012 by Navillus WP 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
drumno5 Posted March 19, 2012 Share Posted March 19, 2012 Sure, times have changed. Now it's easier. Kevin Nah, I'm not buying that. Things are different today, but not necessarily easier. Peace, Fred O. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Navillus WP Posted March 19, 2012 Share Posted March 19, 2012 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GUARDLING Posted March 19, 2012 Share Posted March 19, 2012 (edited) great rifles...as it was so cool to see something like this back in the day BUT look at the release hand which is judged now.......just so different now....actually it makes it even more amazing that the guns were so perfect with bad or different hand releases...yeah rifles Edited March 19, 2012 by GUARDLING 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kamarag Posted March 19, 2012 Share Posted March 19, 2012 I must disagree with this. Look at the precision of the guard books in the 70's, 80's and 90's, in addition to the actual, "Marching and maneuvering", required by the guard members. Today most guard members do not ever attend basics with the corps proper, learn any form of a marching technique, or even learn, "Eight to five." The guards from the 70's and 80's did all of this in addition to performing an 11.5-13 minute show that was largely unison work. I sat at Lucas Oil last year at Finals and watched more than one finalist guard never actually "March" and even then only have 24-36 counts of full color guard unison work their ENTIRE show. Movement/body vocabulary may be taking more of a place of importance on the field on the guard sheets of today, but if one wanted that, one could attend WGI. Most DCI guards these days do not even learn double time with rifles or double time with flags. Let's see them do 1000 counts of either, just as one facet of a typical warm-up back in the day. Let's be honest. I good visual staff could teach a color guard all of those marching skills in about an hour. Today's guards have a sense of spatial awareness that the old guards never had, let alone knew what it was. And marching especially back then, was criminally easy. it could be taught, cleaned, and mastered in a matter of HOURS. Period. I'm not dismissing that it was cool and impressive...in it's time. But today? It's nostalgia. You and other folks are doing nothing more than looking back on those guards with really, really tinted glasses. You think a rifle line of today could perform the rifle work from Danny Boy in 1980 with that degree of cleanliness? Or Slaughter? I do, and they'd learn it, clean it, and master it in a fraction of the time. Then they'd put body and movement under it so they wouldn't get bored. You stop the DVD at any point in 1980 27th Lancers or Scouts (or many other years of either), and the rifle and flag tosses are not only uniform in height, but in velocity of rotation. You do not see that at all today. Give me a flawless triple, quad, or five, caught flat with the echo of the uniform "thwappp" of the leather strap, from and entire rifle line or guard, over one featured performer chunking a 7 or 8 and catching it at an angle or worse, like catching a baby thrown from a burning building, any day. Yes. Stop the DVD and look at release points, arm angles, foot/knee heights. It's a blasted train wreck. Everything that goes on under those tosses, to be frank, kinda sucks. If that stuff was as great as you say it was, you'd see alumni corps doing it. But even they don't. Today's color guard members, at ANY level, know more about timing, body control, spatial awareness, accuracy and flow than the best guard you can point to. And it's NOT EVEN CLOSE. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
7567BC Posted March 19, 2012 Share Posted March 19, 2012 Let's be honest. I good visual staff could teach a color guard all of those marching skills in about an hour. Today's guards have a sense of spatial awareness that the old guards never had, let alone knew what it was. And marching especially back then, was criminally easy. it could be taught, cleaned, and mastered in a matter of HOURS. Period. I'm not dismissing that it was cool and impressive...in it's time. But today? It's nostalgia. You and other folks are doing nothing more than looking back on those guards with really, really tinted glasses. I do, and they'd learn it, clean it, and master it in a fraction of the time. Then they'd put body and movement under it so they wouldn't get bored. Yes. Stop the DVD and look at release points, arm angles, foot/knee heights. It's a blasted train wreck. Everything that goes on under those tosses, to be frank, kinda sucks. If that stuff was as great as you say it was, you'd see alumni corps doing it. But even they don't. Today's color guard members, at ANY level, know more about timing, body control, spatial awareness, accuracy and flow than the best guard you can point to. And it's NOT EVEN CLOSE. Please send me some of what you're smoking. Really? A good staff could teach all necessary marching skills in an hour? Guards NEVER had any spatial awareness until recently? And they were stupid too? And marching was criminally easy and could be taught cleaned and MASTERED in a matter of hours. You are a jacka## to think that way and incredibly insulting to everyone whoever marched or taught "way back then". Your statements are so ridiculously unfounded they are laughable. Today's guards know what they know because of guards who came before them and have been teaching them for years. Those you criticize are largely responsible for what you see on the field today; however, I doubt your ability to discern quality and understand the differences from years ago and today. 5 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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