Kamarag Posted March 19, 2012 Share Posted March 19, 2012 I doubt your ability to discern quality and understand the differences from years ago and today. You're certainly entitled to your opinion. But I've been watching, marching, and teaching in the activity for a really long time. I'm not insulting anyone from back in the day, and if you'd read what I wrote closer, you'd understand that. What I am saying is that today's guard members are better trained, in better shape, with better practice and rehearsal habits. They have a much larger and more demanding skill set, and can apply several of those skills simultaneously. Marching with a flag or rifle in the old style is ridiculously easy compared to the way contemporary color guards move through time and space, applying two, three, and sometimes four different skills layered simultaneously. It's no different than when I've said you can take any of today's corps, teach them drill from any 70's show, and they'd not only learn it in an afternoon, they'd clean it that evening. To think any different is ludicrous. 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kevin Doherty Posted March 19, 2012 Share Posted March 19, 2012 Someone in a recent thread on another subject said that Planet posters were getting too easy going and complacent. I think he'd be happy with this thread. Kevin 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kamarag Posted March 19, 2012 Share Posted March 19, 2012 Someone in a recent thread on another subject said that Planet posters were getting too easy going and complacent. I think he'd be happy with this thread. Kevin Right! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
drumno5 Posted March 19, 2012 Share Posted March 19, 2012 I must disagree with this. Look at the precision of the guard books in the 70's, 80's and 90's, in addition to the actual, "Marching and maneuvering", required by the guard members. Today most guard members do not ever attend basics with the corps proper, learn any form of a marching technique, or even learn, "Eight to five." The guards from the 70's and 80's did all of this in addition to performing an 11.5-13 minute show that was largely unison work. I sat at Lucas Oil last year at Finals and watched more than one finalist guard never actually "March" and even then only have 24-36 counts of full color guard unison work their ENTIRE show. Movement/body vocabulary may be taking more of a place of importance on the field on the guard sheets of today, but if one wanted that, one could attend WGI. Most DCI guards these days do not even learn double time with rifles or double time with flags. Let's see them do 1000 counts of either, just as one facet of a typical warm-up back in the day. You think a rifle line of today could perform the rifle work from Danny Boy in 1980 with that degree of cleanliness? Or Slaughter? You stop the DVD at any point in 1980 27th Lancers or Scouts (or many other years of either), and the rifle and flag tosses are not only uniform in height, but in velocity of rotation. You do not see that at all today. Give me a flawless triple, quad, or five, caught flat with the echo of the uniform "thwappp" of the leather strap, from and entire rifle line or guard, over one featured performer chunking a 7 or 8 and catching it at an angle or worse, like catching a baby thrown from a burning building, any day. Cordog, I think those rose colored goggles you're wearing are not only affecting your sense of perspective, but they must be giving you a headache or something, 'cause they also seem to be making you cranky, and maybe just a little bit unpleasant. Without getting into the differences in style, required skill set, or any of the myriad factors that separate old school from new wave, let's just say that it's difficult to compare apples to oranges. But whether modern-era or golden-age, the accomplishments of the best guards are the result of talent, dedication and a commitment to excellence that has been, and remains, a staple of the drum corps ethic. And though different in many ways, both are spectacular demonstrations of skill and artistry in their own right. Sorry, but that old today's-kids-couldn't-even-carry-[insert name of classic guard from back in the day]'s-leather-rifle-straps routine is a tired diatribe. Peace, Fred O. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cop Posted March 19, 2012 Share Posted March 19, 2012 great rifles...as it was so cool to see something like this back in the day BUT look at the release hand which is judged now.......just so different now....actually it makes it even more amazing that the guns were so perfect with bad or different hand releases...yeah rifles I totally see the same thing.. How can the weapons be perfect in the air with such poor free hands at the release? 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
corpsband Posted March 19, 2012 Share Posted March 19, 2012 This thread epitomizes how so many "old school" drum corps folks talk about modern drum corps. Respect is earned not given away. Posters like Kdoh , Cordog, and 7567BC summarily dismiss today's guards as 'window dressing' without having an inkling of a sniff of a semblance of a clue about the talent level and abilities of today's performers. And yet they're the first to complain about modern performers having no respect for the history of the activity (which in my experience isn't true -- corps have a lot of respect for their heritage.) Is it really so surprising that they're ignored like so much hot air? Yes yes I know. There *are* folks that 'get it' as well. But I think too often we like to overlook the impact of those who don't. </soapbox> 8 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
IllianaLancerContra Posted March 19, 2012 Share Posted March 19, 2012 I'm sticking with 1980 Two-Seven rifle line as my first choice. (below is 1979 during "Danny Boy")... but I'll give "runner-up" award to the 1972 Anaheim Kingsmen rifle line: athleticism, precision, discipline, class. A few years back in the historic section the 27 1980 Rifle Captain (LancerFi) was highly embarrassed by this photo. It was clean by finals. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
craiga Posted March 19, 2012 Share Posted March 19, 2012 This thread epitomizes how so many "old school" drum corps folks talk about modern drum corps. Respect is earned not given away. Posters like Kdoh , Cordog, and 7567BC summarily dismiss today's guards as 'window dressing' without having an inkling of a sniff of a semblance of a clue about the talent level and abilities of today's performers. And yet they're the first to complain about modern performers having no respect for the history of the activity (which in my experience isn't true -- corps have a lot of respect for their heritage.) Is it really so surprising that they're ignored like so much hot air? Yes yes I know. There *are* folks that 'get it' as well. But I think too often we like to overlook the impact of those who don't. </soapbox> Although he doesn't need me to defend him, 7567BC has been in the activity as a member and visual instructor since the 70s, AND he is a HUGE supporter of modern drum corps including the guards...which is why it is folly to try to paint everyone with the same brush. As for me, since I turn 52 next month I suppose I am also a dinosaur. Having said that, the orginal poster asked about "rifle lines", which on its own really refers to a whole different era. Yes, I do wish some guards knew how to march (for example in a parade situation), but I also honor the triad of responsibilites today's guard vocabulary entails..it simply isn't either/or. BTW, if you look at the DVD, Boston 2009's rifles can be seen spinning "doubletime" at the end of the show utilizing the EXACT same technique as BAC's rifles in 1977. Guess what? BOTH WERE GREAT. 7 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
corpsband Posted March 19, 2012 Share Posted March 19, 2012 Although he doesn't need me to defend him, 7567BC has been in the activity as a member and visual instructor since the 70s, AND he is a HUGE supporter of modern drum corps including the guards...which is why it is folly to try to paint everyone with the same brush. As for me, since I turn 52 next month I suppose I am also a dinosaur. Having said that, the orginal poster asked about "rifle lines", which on its own really refers to a whole different era. Yes, I do wish some guards knew how to march (for example in a parade situation), but I also honor the triad of responsibilites today's guard vocabulary entails..it simply isn't either/or. BTW, if you look at the DVD, Boston 2009's rifles can be seen spinning "doubletime" at the end of the show utilizing the EXACT same technique as BAC's rifles in 1977. Guess what? BOTH WERE GREAT. First -- we're of the same generation. And second: I did cover the alternate case and avoided painting everyone with the same brush. But I'll stand by this : too many people point to the exceptions (just as you have) and brush away what seems to be rule. There's a REASON for the attitudes of many young performers and this thread clearly demonstrates it. 4 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kevin Doherty Posted March 19, 2012 Share Posted March 19, 2012 Corpsband, You seem to be an angry person. I hope you get over it. When I was a kid in the 50s, Mother and her sister (they are both gone now after long lives) would take me to the Ballet, usually for Aaron Copland - Rodeo and Billy the Kid. The music knocked my socks off ( never one for men in tights, but you can't takeaway from the skills and athleticism of Villela, Nureyev and Barishnikov). Dad was also taking me to Drum Corps. Saw Maria Tallchief and Alicia Alonso dance with Ballet Russe de Monte Carlo. For younger folks, and I don't mean to be pedantic, this was the Company of Serge Diaghilev whose lead dancer was Vaclav Nijinsky. Perhaps the most famous Company in the history of dance (and I don't leave out Martha Graham, Balanchine, or even Isadora Duncan) I've seen plenty of dance (No, I never saw the Diaghilev Company. but when the way-back machine gets perfected, I might go there) I stand behind my comments, or maybe in front of them, but Gallagher is in the hospital again, so we are temporarily reprieved from the smashing watermelons. Please withhold the brickbats. They are not edible. Kevin 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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