Move DCI to Santa Clara!

[actucker]

I am listening. You're not. DCI is putting at least a quarter of their active membership in more financial peril than the rest. Hence the need to rotate...let everyone get some relief once in a while. That's why permanantly planting a flag in Indy, stadium and city issues aisde, is NOT good for the health of the activity. And while I can't speak to Dayton bringing the largest share for guards ,amybe. Percussion, 50/50. DCI...no. Cali almost guarantees larger attendance. I know people who went to Cali in 07 that hadn't gone in years. Why? It was California.

WGI is a rare breed. I'm not sure guard wise, but I can tell you if percussion moved out west, yes they'd lose some units. Buit given the size of SCPA, they'd gain more than they'd lose.

Again, having the stability gained from hosting championships in the same place every year, IS in fact good for the whole. The benefits of that stability far outweigh the benefits of rotation. So, given that rotation is not a viable option, the best choice is to pick a central location for the championships. Again, it sucks that some corps have to travel more than others, but that's life. There's a reason there are no member corps in Alaska.

The fact is, there is more to be gained from stability than from a rotation of championships. With that fact well established, it doesn't make any sense to talk about putting championships anywhere other than where it already is. Yes, some corps as well as their fans are going to have to travel farther than others and it just so happens that there is a ton of empty space between California and the rest of the inhabited US. That's just the way it is. There are tons of national conventions of other activities that happen all the way out in LA. It sucks for people who want to go who live on the East Coast. We live in a big country. Travel is expensive, and there just isn't a way to do it fairly that would foster the kind of stability that DCI has needed in the past few years.

And no, the SCPA (which I'm quite familiar with) would in no way make up for the loss of all of the groups from the East coast. Even if the number of ensembles were there, you'd lose a lot of the different styles and thought processes from the eastern side of the country. You really think a group like Dorman high school would be able to make it all the way to California from South Carolina? That's not any more feasible than Casa Grande coming out from Arizona to a championships on the East coast. That's why its centrally located, so that the fewest groups possible have to travel long distances.

Oh, and as you continue to point out over and over again, 25% of the membership comes from the west coast, and that same 25% continues to be able to make the trip every year. Doesn't seem to be a problem for them. Again, comparing things to Dayton and WGI, groups typically plan far in advance when it comes to finances. For example percussion Worlds is next week. I have a budget meeting with next year's indoor committee tonight. I know the lay of the land in Dayton. I know where the good housings sites are, I know what part of town I need to be in. Planning that trip is easy as pie because I know what to expect. Is traveling to Dayton more expensive than somewhere closer? Sure. But I know exactly what to expect, so I'd rather have that knowledge up front. If it were to change locations every year, planning would be much more difficult, and given the financial state of the world today, knowing what to plan for is more valuable in a lot of ways than spending less money overall.

Edited April 11, 2012 by actucker

[84BDsop]

One thing that was suggested at the time was working together to share costs. Did they do this? There is no evidence to support it.

Not a DCI answer, but SoCal Dream and Renegades shared a semi truck to get their gear to Rochester for 06 DCA.

[84BDsop]

Who said anything about corps folding.

Putting finals in a central location (even though it's NOT central for all of the corps) implies a financial component. The arguments for finals have always ended up with restating the distance the West coast corps have to travel every...single...year compared to corps who continually get shorter trips to finals due to where they're set.

And yes...I'll mention once in 40 years out west because it is highly unfair to have one region do all the heavy lifting go get to finals every year.

[actucker]

Putting finals in a central location (even though it's NOT central for all of the corps) implies a financial component. The arguments for finals have always ended up with restating the distance the West coast corps have to travel every...single...year compared to corps who continually get shorter trips to finals due to where they're set.

I've already shown you the numbers. Based on the membership, Indy is in fact centrally located. So how many corps from the west coast have folded due to the Indy deal? Go ahead. I'll wait.

And yes...I'll mention once in 40 years out west because it is highly unfair to have one region do all the heavy lifting go get to finals every year.

Life isn't fair. There is no fair way to do it. No matter where you put finals, someone is going to have to travel farther than someone else, and those people will complain. While rotating the location might shut some of them up, the organization AS A WHOLE, is better served by a constant location. Its the same reason the regionals have been (for the most part) in the same place for years. Incidentally, I would be completely in favor of a late season regional somewhere farther west than San Antonio. I'm not unsympathetic to fans out there, but again, what's best for the whole is more important than a few who think its unfair. We could write books about the things in life that aren't fair, but have to be that way in order for the general populous to prosper.

[corpsband]

Putting finals in a central location (even though it's NOT central for all of the corps) implies a financial component. The arguments for finals have always ended up with restating the distance the West coast corps have to travel every...single...year compared to corps who continually get shorter trips to finals due to where they're set.

And yes...I'll mention once in 40 years out west because it is highly unfair to have one region do all the heavy lifting go get to finals every year.

It IS central for a majority of corps. You're right that it's a financial decision. West coast corps are already budgeting additional costs of traveling to/from the West coast. The rest of DCI (the majority of corps) budgets do not include the West coast penalty. No matter how you twist it, it's going to be an additional burden for most corps and it won't actually save any travel for the West coast corps -- they return home every year regardless of whether finals are there or not.

As for your "once in 40 years" argument -- you're complaining basically that it's not "fair". I agree. It's not "fair".

But if a West coast finals cost more for most corps and costs the same for the West coast corps, there's just no practical reason to have finals out West. Impractical reasons (like it not being "fair") sure. Perhaps the best answer is something like Indy for 4 years and a rotating site the fifth year. This gives everyone (DCI,the corps,fans) plenty of advance notice. But that still might mean once every 20-30 years for the West Coast as I'm sure the Northeast, Southeast, and Texas would all like to host. And I'd bet on Camp Randall getting a turn.

[kickhaltsforlife]

Let's not forget that the west coast corps still traveled all the way east for Allentown in 07. It was just early season instead of late season.

[Jeff Ream]

Who said anything about corps folding. The move doesn't have to put anyone in financial danger to place an unwanted, or unfair strain on the majority of the community. Again, needs of the many outweighs the needs of the few. I know I know, forty years, blah blah blah. That has nothing to do with the conversation, its just the only arguing point you have apparently. The fact is, the west coast is the least practical option for championships when considering the DCI community as a whole. Like it or not, DCI is going to do what is best for the entire community, not a small portion of it.

right. so screw the West coast even though they travel far more than, oh say...8 corps within 6 hoursdrive of Indy? Maybe more? I mean it isn't like gas is any cheaper out west than it is in Toledo or Rosemont

[Jeff Ream]

I live in Southern CA, and it was GREAT to see DCI Finals up in Pasadena. That was the only Championship event I've attended since aging-out in 98 and moving to Cali summer of 99. It is indisputable that California offers a great destination/vacation spot for fans, awesome weather for events, and great venues for the competitions. I seem to recall that Pasadena had the best attendance of any DCI Finals in decades (though I could be mistaken), and there were very few serious complaints about the ordeal from fans.

That all being said...

The bottom line of any discussion regarding Championship venues is $$$

What venue will have the most positive fiscal impact on DCI and its member corps? What location will be the most cost effective for corps to travel/stay/rehearse in?

NOTHING else really matters: not fan favorite locations, not beauty of a stadium, not even dome vs open stadium. What location is the best financial opportunity for DCI is all that matters, and that apparently seems to be Indy for the time being. If things change, I'm sure DCI will reevaluate that decision, but currently Indy is the best option for DCI financially, and it would make no business sense to move away from the best financial option

well stadium costs may be a factor, but considering DCI hasn't come within 5000 paid attendance to what Pasadena had, that can't help either.

[GeneralTsoChicken]

The real questions are, what really matters?

1. The product? As in the end of the season, finals, how the corps sound live, how the video production sounds and looks.

2. The kids? As in education, the value of drum corps on each individual life.

3. The money? As in financially does it make sense to be in Indy.

My response to these three questions are that they are NOT achieved in Indy.

1. The product. It is less than what we expect from a finals location. It is hard to get around. It is not a good place to hear the finals performance live. So, the cornerstone championship of your entire organization is one of the worst places to hear it? Wow. Video production and sounds don't work well EITHER. Nonsense for those that say it does. Listen to the recordings, it is like a bad radio station with amplification and sampling 20x louder, even with post production it comes out bad. Video wise, the lighting creates a hertz flicker that makes high quality video worse, not better.

2. The kids. The education value of the activity will be similar in just about any location. However, if we are about education in ALL of the marching arts, it would make sense to have the activity's crowning moment in an area that is a cradle and mecca of marching band. Not Indianapolis.

3. The money. Financially, does it make sense to sell less tickets? No. Does it make sense to punish corps who have no choice in their historical locations? No. Does it make sense to have the event in a place where Corps are scalped THOUSANDS of dollars for housing sites? No. Does it make sense to have families from Okie, Cali, Texas, and Florida travel thousands of miles to see their children when they are the ones that make up that large constituent of DCI Marching members? No.

Moving out of Indy is a no brainer.

Edited April 11, 2012 by GeneralTsoChicken

[Jeff Ream]

Again, having the stability gained from hosting championships in the same place every year, IS in fact good for the whole. The benefits of that stability far outweigh the benefits of rotation. So, given that rotation is not a viable option, the best choice is to pick a central location for the championships. Again, it sucks that some corps have to travel more than others, but that's life. There's a reason there are no member corps in Alaska.

The fact is, there is more to be gained from stability than from a rotation of championships. With that fact well established, it doesn't make any sense to talk about putting championships anywhere other than where it already is. Yes, some corps as well as their fans are going to have to travel farther than others and it just so happens that there is a ton of empty space between California and the rest of the inhabited US. That's just the way it is. There are tons of national conventions of other activities that happen all the way out in LA. It sucks for people who want to go who live on the East Coast. We live in a big country. Travel is expensive, and there just isn't a way to do it fairly that would foster the kind of stability that DCI has needed in the past few years.

And no, the SCPA (which I'm quite familiar with) would in no way make up for the loss of all of the groups from the East coast. Even if the number of ensembles were there, you'd lose a lot of the different styles and thought processes from the eastern side of the country. You really think a group like Dorman high school would be able to make it all the way to California from South Carolina? That's not any more feasible than Casa Grande coming out from Arizona to a championships on the East coast. That's why its centrally located, so that the fewest groups possible have to travel long distances.

Oh, and as you continue to point out over and over again, 25% of the membership comes from the west coast, and that same 25% continues to be able to make the trip every year. Doesn't seem to be a problem for them. Again, comparing things to Dayton and WGI, groups typically plan far in advance when it comes to finances. For example percussion Worlds is next week. I have a budget meeting with next year's indoor committee tonight. I know the lay of the land in Dayton. I know where the good housings sites are, I know what part of town I need to be in. Planning that trip is easy as pie because I know what to expect. Is traveling to Dayton more expensive than somewhere closer? Sure. But I know exactly what to expect, so I'd rather have that knowledge up front. If it were to change locations every year, planning would be much more difficult, and given the financial state of the world today, knowing what to plan for is more valuable in a lot of ways than spending less money overall.

so, a location that has shown to polarize the paying audience is good? Even people who have praised certain aspects of Indy have yet to give it a total endorsement, nor have many committed to planting the flag every year too. But do you not see the disadvantage in distance?

corps not withn a days drive:

BD, SCV, Crossmen, Blue Knights, Troopers, PC, Academy, Cascades, Mandarins. there's 9 of your 23 World Class corps. 40%. Who knows, I may be missing one. I'd imagine Teal is a possibility to add to the list too. However rotating IS the fairest way to make it easier for all over points in time. many conventions rotate around the country for that very reason. Yes that 40% keeps making the trek, but it can't be easy. And I'm sure they'd love to have it closer to home periodically. Funny thing is, some of the corps in the worst financial shape can get there in 11 hours or less. Yet, they have this great advantage given to them, and they still can't operate soundly. So the Westsern/Southern corps have to suck it up and suffer for them.

as for SCPA, there are far more groups out there than there was when WGI was there...what 10 years ago? With advance planning, groups here could make it.

I know where everything is in Dayton now too. And the bottom line, minus two restaurants, HQ bar and a few hotels, nothing else there appeals to visit except UD Arena and Nutter.Well maybe the ballpark after I sw something on Man V. Food.