Move DCI to Santa Clara!

[Rifuarian]

If you'll go back, you'll notice I actually did edit that portion of the comment before you even responded. I was multi tasking and once I read over that, I realized how it sounded (even from a troll myself). My feelings against Indy aren't THAT extreme, although not pleasant. While I am not an Indy fan, as is obvious, that one was a little much, even for me, so I changed it.

I personally have never had a positive experience in Indy, but don't want to generalize something that smears such a broad group of people (I'll save that for later. :-))

Bloomington, Indiana, on the other hand... actually worked out pretty well with the content that we were given on field. It was very fitting that a loud, emotionally driven show was the last thing to win truly outdoors.

Understood! I'll edit my post as well.

Like I said, I have mixed feelings about Indy and LOS. I enjoy living in the area, but it's a little painful having DCI finals in your backyard and having no desire to attend (though walking around the park and listening to the warmups is still pretty sweet). And I strongly sympathize with fans who may never be able to attend finals again. Still, this is a major gamble on DCI's part and I want them to succeed. The Indy move can't be declared a success just yet, but I don't think it's a disaster either.

[Rifuarian]

This quote gets the "bookmark" on my browser. You'll find out; it has actually been quite the disaster. When it is all said and done, quite a few financial things will surface. Hopefully we'll both still be around DCP to continue this discussion then. Things are far from peachy.

People don't try to jump from a ship in the Arctic that isn't sinking.

I do know that DCI was in a bit of a crisis a few years back (and I don't just mean the G8 thing, which was bad enough). I thought they'd stabilized. If or when these "things" surface, I'll readily admit that I'm wrong. Until then, I'm still not quite convinced. Hope you understand.

That said, I'm generally dissatisfied with the entire marching arts community in the Indy area, and wouldn't be surprised to see major changes in the next decade. Don't honestly feel it'll be DCI, though.

Edit: One more thing - and I know this is off-topic, but this thread never had much of a chance - would you care to relate your negative experiences with Indy? After my own disappointment with the Indianapolis finals I'm interested in hearing reactions from other fans, both good and bad.

Edited April 11, 2012 by Rifuarian

[84BDsop]

How many corps that came to Pasadena and have folded can point to THAT specific season's financial costs as the cause of their demise and not the more traditional mismanagement?

Div III (15 attendees, 5 since folded...2 of those California corps)

Memphis Sound (active, turned into Forte, going through evaluation)

Fever (dead)

Revolution (active, going through evaluation)

Dutch Boy (dead)

Oregon Crusaders (active)

Impulse (active)

VK (active)

Mystikal (dead)

Gold (active)

Citations (dead)

Spokane Thunder (active)

HYPE (dead)

Racine Scouts (active)

Spirit of Newark (active)

BDC (active)

Let's leave out Yokahama Scouts.

I'll admit I'm guessing on Citations, HYPE, and Dutch Boy...I'm going by the current DCI list and they aren't on it....but some of them might exist as parade groups or are in the process of reforming.

However, Citations went to finals in 08 and 09, as did Dutch Boy...so the trip to Pasadena didn't kill them right away.

Div II (6 attendees, all still active)

Jersey Surf (active, and moved to Div I)

Spartans (active)

Teal Sound (active, and moved to Div I)

BDB (active)

SCVC (active)

Raiders (active)

Div I (22 attendees, 1 since folded)

BD (active)

Cadets (active)

Cavies (active)

Regiment (active)

'Coats (active)

Crown (active)

SCV (active)

BK (active)

BAC (active)

Glassmen (active)

Colts (active)

Spirit (active)

Academy (active)

Blue Stars (active)

Madison (active)

Crossmen (active)

PC (active)

Cascades (active)

Southwind (dead)

Troopers (active)

Mandarins (active)

Pio (active)

Attendees: (43 total, 6 since folded) That's a 14% loss rate over the 2 following years.

Someone else can compare this loss to other years, but I'd guess it's comparable.

[GeneralTsoChicken]

One more thing - and I know this is off-topic, but this thread never had much of a chance - would you care to relate your negative experiences with Indy? After my own disappointment with the Indianapolis finals I'm interested in hearing reactions from other fans, both good and bad.

Definitely. I'll check back in tomorrow, if this thread hasn't been blown up or has blown up. I've got a little IPA in me and need to wait until then to make sure my thoughts are clear, concise, and an accurate portrayal of my feelings towards Indy.

[3rd Glasgow BB]

1. Indianapolis – plus points

a. Indy is a day's drive for 50% of the US population. Some of you like me may have the time to travel coast to coast or continent to continent but lots of folk won't, they need to be in and out in a couple of days. Not to mention the extra cost that would incur.

b. In hard economic times DCI has secured its financial future for the duration of the LOS contract. Personally I feel this plus point alone blows any minus points out of the water.

c. Indianapolis wants DCI to be based there. Closing streets for the parade would be an example of this.

d. Enough hotel rooms within walking distance of LOS. I really enjoyed my 5 minute walk to the Stadium surrounded by fellow fans.

e. Decent Climate. Ok, not really a selling point but it helps once you get there.

f. Good choice of facilities i.e. restaurants, bars, malls etc. Indy has some excellent museums if you have the time.

2. Indianapolis – minus points

a. A lot of DCI fans want to visit somewhere new every year. They want their DCI finals trip to be part of their annual vacation. A very valid point that probably has taken some fans away from the activity… but enough of a point to endanger financial security?

b. Air travel – Not the easiest or cheapest to get to. Not just from Scotland I suspect.

3. LOS Stadium – plus points

a. Its facilities are second to none, everything you'd expect from a modern state of the art stadium.

b. Shows in finals week will never cancelled due to weather. If I'm paying 1000s of dollars to get to finals then I want some sort of guarantee that it won't be cancelled.

c. Every corps gets to play under the lights, not just the last few. This might mean nothing to you but it means a lot to the lower placed corps.

d. The visual package is just about perfect, lighting & black backdrop etc.

e. Enough room for all the DCI side shows, exhibitions, market place etc.

f. Production values. Just how good are the Blu-ray's?

4. LOS Stadium – minus points

a. The sound package is the most contentious issue but this has improved since 2009. From inside the 30-35 yard lines the sound is decent, obviously improving noticeably the closer to the 50 yard line you get. Once you move further out then from what I understand the sound quality tails of quite rapidly. Personally I feel the ticket prices should reflect this more.

[cixelsyd]

Take the activity to the areas that support it.

You know, the first thing I thought of when reading this was the amazing support Michigan City has been providing over the years for their open class focus show, championship preliminary contest, and now both prelims and finals. The second thing I thought of was that while Indianapolis has pluses and minuses, there is no doubt that they offered a lot of tangible support to DCI with long term deals for stadiums and headquarters.

In that sense, DCI has taken the activity to areas that support it.

[actucker]

How many corps that came to Pasadena and have folded can point to THAT specific season's financial costs as the cause of their demise and not the more traditional mismanagement?

Attendees: (43 total, 6 since folded) That's a 14% loss rate over the 2 following years.

Someone else can compare this loss to other years, but I'd guess it's comparable.

Who said anything about corps folding. The move doesn't have to put anyone in financial danger to place an unwanted, or unfair strain on the majority of the community. Again, needs of the many outweighs the needs of the few. I know I know, forty years, blah blah blah. That has nothing to do with the conversation, its just the only arguing point you have apparently. The fact is, the west coast is the least practical option for championships when considering the DCI community as a whole. Like it or not, DCI is going to do what is best for the entire community, not a small portion of it.

[rootofthechord]

How many corps that came to Pasadena and have folded can point to THAT specific season's financial costs as the cause of their demise and not the more traditional mismanagement?

Attendees: (43 total, 6 since folded) That's a 14% loss rate over the 2 following years.

Someone else can compare this loss to other years, but I'd guess it's comparable.

To add - Fever (Modesto) and Mystikal (LA area) definitely did not fold because of California championships. Fever went under due to mismanagement and going out to Foxboro in 2005.

[perc2100]

Personally, I'm not a big fan of keeping the championship in Indy. Already stated that in this thread. I'm also a fairly outspoken critic of the semi-incestuous love fest between DCI, BOA, ISSMA, the big Indy area bands, etc. that I feel is holding back all of the organizations involved in one way or another.

There are many reasons for holding championships in Indy, on a permanent basis. You've listed some. You left out the most important: It saves DCI time, money, and other resources that have been tied up in the interminable search for finals venues. DCI calculated that the decline in ticket sales would be offset by the elimination of this headache. So far they seem to be correct. Ticket sales declined, but now seem to have stabilized (still time for them bottom out, though).

Again, I'm not personally in favor of the Indy location, but it's far from a disaster. Not sure where you're getting this idea from.

I live in Southern CA, and it was GREAT to see DCI Finals up in Pasadena. That was the only Championship event I've attended since aging-out in 98 and moving to Cali summer of 99. It is indisputable that California offers a great destination/vacation spot for fans, awesome weather for events, and great venues for the competitions. I seem to recall that Pasadena had the best attendance of any DCI Finals in decades (though I could be mistaken), and there were very few serious complaints about the ordeal from fans.

That all being said...

The bottom line of any discussion regarding Championship venues is $$$

What venue will have the most positive fiscal impact on DCI and its member corps? What location will be the most cost effective for corps to travel/stay/rehearse in?

NOTHING else really matters: not fan favorite locations, not beauty of a stadium, not even dome vs open stadium. What location is the best financial opportunity for DCI is all that matters, and that apparently seems to be Indy for the time being. If things change, I'm sure DCI will reevaluate that decision, but currently Indy is the best option for DCI financially, and it would make no business sense to move away from the best financial option

[lastknight]

1. Indianapolis – plus points

a. Indy is a day's drive for 50% of the US population. Some of you like me may have the time to travel coast to coast or continent to continent but lots of folk won't, they need to be in and out in a couple of days. Not to mention the extra cost that would incur.

b. In hard economic times DCI has secured its financial future for the duration of the LOS contract. Personally I feel this plus point alone blows any minus points out of the water.

c. Indianapolis wants DCI to be based there. Closing streets for the parade would be an example of this.

d. Enough hotel rooms within walking distance of LOS. I really enjoyed my 5 minute walk to the Stadium surrounded by fellow fans.

e. Decent Climate. Ok, not really a selling point but it helps once you get there.

f. Good choice of facilities i.e. restaurants, bars, malls etc. Indy has some excellent museums if you have the time.

2. Indianapolis – minus points

a. A lot of DCI fans want to visit somewhere new every year. They want their DCI finals trip to be part of their annual vacation. A very valid point that probably has taken some fans away from the activity… but enough of a point to endanger financial security?

b. Air travel – Not the easiest or cheapest to get to. Not just from Scotland I suspect.

3. LOS Stadium – plus points

a. Its facilities are second to none, everything you'd expect from a modern state of the art stadium.

b. Shows in finals week will never cancelled due to weather. If I'm paying 1000s of dollars to get to finals then I want some sort of guarantee that it won't be cancelled.

c. Every corps gets to play under the lights, not just the last few. This might mean nothing to you but it means a lot to the lower placed corps.

d. The visual package is just about perfect, lighting & black backdrop etc.

e. Enough room for all the DCI side shows, exhibitions, market place etc.

f. Production values. Just how good are the Blu-ray's?

4. LOS Stadium – minus points

a. The sound package is the most contentious issue but this has improved since 2009. From inside the 30-35 yard lines the sound is decent, obviously improving noticeably the closer to the 50 yard line you get. Once you move further out then from what I understand the sound quality tails of quite rapidly. Personally I feel the ticket prices should reflect this more.

I have to contend with the highlighted point. I travel to the area fairly regularly and flights to and from Indy from my paert of the world (Florida) are consistently cheaper than flights to Chicago or St. Louis. Now....car rental on the other hand is out to lunch in Indy, but as many have said, one can easily do finals in Indy without renting a car.

Otherwise, I'd have to +1 every point above.