And in first place~ Posted June 20, 2012 Share Posted June 20, 2012 This has nothing at all to do with pushing the envelope. It's all dollars and cents and Hop doesn't beat around the bush either. Sure he tries to couch it in "Drum corps is about to die if we don't do this" terms, but his reasoning is that there's a LOT more money available if you merge drum corps into the marching band world. Suddenly you're part of the music education scene of 2 million young people, not an activity for 5000 or so mostly college age kids. Oh....seems to me he's pushing the envelope or gift wrap to make more $$$$ then. Makes "cents". Or does it? So in other words, Hop says in effect "screw you ticket buying people who make huge sacrifices to go to a show maybe hours away, my main concern is educatiing young adults". Thanks for the insight. It's always good to learn and see what makes people tick. Or in this case, hop. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
corpsband Posted June 21, 2012 Share Posted June 21, 2012 (edited) Oh....seems to me he's pushing the envelope or gift wrap to make more $ then. Makes "cents". Or does it? So in other words, Hop says in effect "screw you ticket buying people who make huge sacrifices to go to a show maybe hours away, my main concern is educatiing young adults". Thanks for the insight. It's always good to learn and see what makes people tick. Or in this case, hop. I think he cares about drum corps. And I don't think he's out to screw over the fans. He just thinks it won't survive as it's currently run. And he doesn't claim that adding WW's is *the* answer -- it's just one possible answer. You should listen to the podcast -- he lays his position out on the table pretty clearly. Edited June 21, 2012 by corpsband Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CuriousMe Posted June 21, 2012 Share Posted June 21, 2012 Sorry, Mike. Drum Corps is the next level. It's not marching band. Not to me anyway... Exactly! The biggest differences between marching band and drum corps have never been about instrumentation. So why is everyone so cranked about instrumentation? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
audiodb Posted June 21, 2012 Share Posted June 21, 2012 Common thread from these two posters.... This has nothing at all to do with pushing the envelope. It's all dollars and cents and Hop doesn't beat around the bush either. Sure he tries to couch it in "Drum corps is about to die if we don't do this" terms, but his reasoning is that there's a LOT more money available if you merge drum corps into the marching band world. Suddenly you're part of the music education scene of 2 million young people, not an activity for 5000 or so mostly college age kids. So you're saying drum corps is not part of the music education scene? One thing that stuck out to me that everyone is overlooking. George said that DCI is a non-profit for a reason. And that reason is to enrich young.musicians through music education and performance. If you stick with that mantra and have it guide DCI's future then of course you would want to add woodwinds/etc. because it opens avenues for more students to have an enriching experience. He also said that if that is NOT our purpose then DCI should no longer be a non-profit. Again, contending that drum corps and music education are somehow incompatible? Talk about overreaching. Y'all must realize that marching band, like drum corps, is roughly 50% visual and 50% music. Neither of them are solely about "music education". More importantly, there is no requirement that non-profits be devoted to education. In fact, there are quite a few that are dedicated to the preservation of a particular art form. I'd say DCI falls more into the latter category than the former. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kcbari Posted June 21, 2012 Share Posted June 21, 2012 and the 86 corps and 89 corps were also said to NOT BE DRUM CORPS of many fans who came long before that time.............we all like to think nothing can replace us and maybe alot of numbers cant be replaced and I by no means want to hear WWs but to think its gonna go away if I dont support it is crazy. As far as hop..if people want to stop hearing his opinions and rants....stop these threads...Do people actually realise that there are a few ( more than a few ) people on this message board that purposly put things up and sit in amusement watching the pot their stirrd up? Wanna stop those who are that obvious, DONT RESPOND AND FEED THE FIRE. I think all you do , ( even if we dont agree with the person ) is make their statements more impotant..ignore and it makes what they have to say or offer totally not important at all...JMO All valid points based on perspective. Again, my band kids were interested and amazed at the accomplishments and skills of the members, but the shows themselves they found boring...as did I. I'm proud of all of the kids out there, but I just don't get entertained anymore, so I only go when I take my band kids. This may have an effect on their perspectives as well (students are a reflection of their teachers, for good or ill), so maybe it is important to realize that the "legacy" arguments do have some merit. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kcbari Posted June 21, 2012 Share Posted June 21, 2012 But you're standing up and cheering out of respect for the kids, which is precisely what we should all be doing. I think he was referring to when corps were much more exciting than they are today. In general, I mean. Some of us still like the more powerful shows with maybe a ballad mixed in. Loud and wild endings used to bring people up off their seats and it was not always just to be polite. What many people don't quite understand is that it is hard for some of us to let go of what once was. Add woodwinds to the mix and then we lose more of what we know as drum corps. No disrespect intended to marching bands as I love them as well, but if and when I want to see them I can go to their shows. I think Hop likes to push the envelope, but these other people in here know much more than I do. All I know is that I am a bleacher bum and I will definitely stand and cheer. Good points all around about both respect for the kids and whether standing shows not only respect but enthusiasm. Since first going on tour in 1980, I have certainly noticed that audiences now don't seem to stand for the same reasons as they once did...standing o's still happen, but as some have said, it seems to be out of "respect" for the performers and their efforts...nothing wrong with that at all, and I do it, too. However, checking both my memory and some old videos, etc., it seems that crowds once seemed to stand more often out of a sheer, visceral reaction to the excitement of the moment. I do think that that does not happen as much anymore, and I do miss it....not only as an audience member, but also for the performers. It is truly a special feeling when people are "throwing babies!!" Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
corpsband Posted June 21, 2012 Share Posted June 21, 2012 Common thread from these two posters.... This has nothing at all to do with pushing the envelope. It's all dollars and cents and Hop doesn't beat around the bush either. Sure he tries to couch it in "Drum corps is about to die if we don't do this" terms, but his reasoning is that there's a LOT more money available if you merge drum corps into the marching band world. Suddenly you're part of the music education scene of 2 million young people, not an activity for 5000 or so mostly college age kids. So you're saying drum corps is not part of the music education scene? FWIW I thought it was clear I was just trying to post the condensed version of Hopkin's POV. Didn't express a personal opinion one way or another... BUT I will. Yeah -- drum corps is an educational activity. No -- drum corps is not part of the scholastic music scene. Many (most?) HS MB kids seem to have no clue what DCI or drum corps is. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RetiredJedi Posted June 21, 2012 Share Posted June 21, 2012 Exactly! The biggest differences between marching band and drum corps have never been about instrumentation. So why is everyone so cranked about instrumentation? My perception, and I'm not speaking for anyone but myself, is that when WW are added to the mix that Drum and Bugle Corps will take a HUGE step backwards and become marching band. Marching band on steroids probably but certainly NOT DC as we know and love it. It wouldn't be the next level anymore. Meh WW will not happen due to expense anyway. A previous poster nailed it when they discussed the total expense of what adding WW would cost. A DC would have to have 2-3 peeps working sun up to sun down to replace pads for a myriad of reasons and adjustments every day while on tour. Not practical for the performer and not cost effective for the Corps. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JulesBry Posted June 21, 2012 Share Posted June 21, 2012 The woodwind debate simply comes down to personal preference and really not a lot beyond that. People fighting for change and people fighting against it are two sides of the same coin. The motives behind their opinions are often the same: I want things to be the way I like. Yes, and here's the thing. If you prefer the sound of a marching band that includes both brass and woodwinds, you can currently go to almost any high school in America. And if that isn't good enough, check out Bands of America. If you prefer the sound of brass and percussion without the woodwinds, there are only a select few places you can go to hear it. If DCI adds woodwinds, there is one fewer place to hear brass and percussion. That loss of a beautiful and powerful outlet for exciting music would be a sad day in America. (My prediction is that DCA would get an influx of new fans and members if DCI ever adds woodwinds.) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JulesBry Posted June 21, 2012 Share Posted June 21, 2012 IMO electronics haven't been used as effectively as they could be, there are few instances where use actually adds to a show. If anything electronics have taken away creativity from the designers. Instead of finding a way to imitate a sound, we just stroke a key. Really the only other thing we can add in is more instruments. Another addition that will add nothing to the activity. Well... it will add nothing that isn't already around somewhere else. Worse yet, when they're used badly, the judges don't seem to care. If they did, then when the electronics "went horribly wrong" on any given day, you'd see a change in scores. I don't like the idea of synth sounds in Drum Corps (if I want to hear a piano solo, I'll go to a piano recital, not a Drum Corps show), but if we're going to be stuck with them, there had better be some negative reinforcement for using them badly. I love the Cavaliers, but if you're going to use a piano accompaniment, at least have the decency to find a piano sound that sounds like a piano! Similarly, if we're going to add woodwinds, there absolutely MUST be rewards for using them well and penalties for using them badly. If judges aren't willing to make those kinds of subjective calls, then we need new judges. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts
Join the conversation
You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.