supersop Posted June 20, 2012 Share Posted June 20, 2012 While I'm thoroughly tired of Hoppy talking about diluting the identity of drum corps ........ All I took from his quote was this: HUGER and EDUCATION in the same sentence. Now, why would I or anyone else listen any further nor give this individual's thoughts a second thought? End thread. 4 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
garfield Posted June 20, 2012 Share Posted June 20, 2012 If half of DCI becomes woodwinds, the demand for spots in the corps goes up. More kids would want to march, simply because they are now able to. With the extra participants, more corps can be formed or the max number of people in the corps can be raised. Regardless, show attendance increases. With an increase in ticket demand, ticket prices rise, earning more income for the corps. This is just non-sensical. You have no evidence that "more kids would want to march simply because they are now able to". Has drum corps tapped out all the brass players already? One could get more kids to march horns, drums, and guard by lowering or eliminating the tour fees via corporate sponsorship. "...more corps can be formed..." is easy to say, but raising the initial million necessary to start a corps is just as hard whether corps march horns or reeds. The max number of marching members can be raised, but don't forget the equipment, trucks, busses, and food that it will take to accomodate those extra members. It'll take higher fees, not lower, to pay for more kids to march. When capital costs are considered, the "economies of scale" argument dies. Most corps turn away auditionees (and some turn away whole corps of auditionees) now, yet those "extra" players aren't spawning the new corps you envision. "Regardless, show attendance increases." Really? Did you include in your calculation the number of legacy fans who would finally and permanently walk away if reeds are allowed to march in corps? When you do a realistic pro-forma it's unreasonable to presume that attendance will go up. As example only, let's say that max members goes up to 200, an extra 50 kids on the field (and all of them reeds in your vision). Multiply by the 23 WC corps and two parents or siblings per MM, and you get 2300 new people attending shows (and I would claim this is not realistic because less than the top-12 march a full corps of 150 now). Look realistically at that number of new fans... Do you think the introduction of marching WW would drive away less than 2300 legacy fans? Really? And, finally, if Hop gets his way, all that (fictional) extra revenue will be shared only by an exclusive group of corps, not the activity as a whole. You've made many spurious statements in this thread; I suggest you (re-) read the G7, Project Persona, DCI's (now dead) Master Plan, the USBands balance sheet, and the attendance statistics throughout the last 15 years even as the myriad of supposed "be-all, end-all fix" proposals have been enacted. Then ask yourself these questions: 1) Who has been the primary instigator of all of these changes over these last 15 or 20 years? 2) Did these changes actually acheive the results that were predicted, and 3) What makes this time different? 5 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kcbari Posted June 20, 2012 Share Posted June 20, 2012 I agree with you in many ways BUT heres a question..will the fan base, die hard, fan support change as the fan of yesterday and today ages and the old timer becomes a total different decade of people...just a thought I know that there's 26 pages of discussion, but I wanted to chime in here... ...as an old-time corps vet and current music educator, I am one of those who does influence in many ways whether the youngsters of today become aware of drum corps. If I don't like it anymore, I don't share it; many older folks do the same. Yes, that will change as we are replaced in education, but there is a disconnect. I do have to smile a little when my kids would rather watch BD '86, PR '89, etc. than almost any other recent shows. I took 40 to watch the show this past Sunday in Louisville, and they were bored for the most part...the only corps who really impressed them was Crown. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jeff Ream Posted June 20, 2012 Share Posted June 20, 2012 This is just non-sensical. You have no evidence that "more kids would want to march simply because they are now able to". Has drum corps tapped out all the brass players already? One could get more kids to march horns, drums, and guard by lowering or eliminating the tour fees via corporate sponsorship. "...more corps can be formed..." is easy to say, but raising the initial million necessary to start a corps is just as hard whether corps march horns or reeds. The max number of marching members can be raised, but don't forget the equipment, trucks, busses, and food that it will take to accomodate those extra members. It'll take higher fees, not lower, to pay for more kids to march. When capital costs are considered, the "economies of scale" argument dies. Most corps turn away auditionees (and some turn away whole corps of auditionees) now, yet those "extra" players aren't spawning the new corps you envision. "Regardless, show attendance increases." Really? Did you include in your calculation the number of legacy fans who would finally and permanently walk away if reeds are allowed to march in corps? When you do a realistic pro-forma it's unreasonable to presume that attendance will go up. As example only, let's say that max members goes up to 200, an extra 50 kids on the field (and all of them reeds in your vision). Multiply by the 23 WC corps and two parents or siblings per MM, and you get 2300 new people attending shows (and I would claim this is not realistic because less than the top-12 march a full corps of 150 now). Look realistically at that number of new fans... Do you think the introduction of marching WW would drive away less than 2300 legacy fans? Really? And, finally, if Hop gets his way, all that (fictional) extra revenue will be shared only by an exclusive group of corps, not the activity as a whole. You've made many spurious statements in this thread; I suggest you (re-) read the G7, Project Persona, DCI's (now dead) Master Plan, the USBands balance sheet, and the attendance statistics throughout the last 15 years even as the myriad of supposed "be-all, end-all fix" proposals have been enacted. Then ask yourself these questions: 1) Who has been the primary instigator of all of these changes over these last 15 or 20 years? 2) Did these changes actually acheive the results that were predicted, and 3) What makes this time different? can this be pinned with Bawkers post? 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BigBadMadMan Posted June 20, 2012 Share Posted June 20, 2012 Yeah . . . I may not be an old-timer, but people have been making the "drum corps will be dead within x amount of years" argument forever. Guess what? It won't be. You obviously didn't read the rest of the post. This activity lives on legacy fan and alumni support. Add woodwinds and you're gonna have to replace a LOT more than was bargained for. That you can count on. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tim K Posted June 20, 2012 Share Posted June 20, 2012 (edited) George Hopkins seems to be the kind of person who says quite a bit and gets discussions going. Some of his ideas and strategies have been worthwhile--you can't argue with his success, but he also floats some controversial and quite frankly bad ideas. Great thinkers often do this not to suggest a new way as much as to get discussions going, and obviously that has happened. Adding woodwinds will not solve any problems with drum corps today. During the heyday of drum corps, the Boston are also had competitive bands and drill teams along with drum corps. They all rose at the same time and declined at the same time. As someone who was in a band and a clarinetist, I loved drum corps for their pure brass sound. The bands often had better musicians and could do what drum corps could not due based on the range of instruments, and the guards and drum lines were equally as good as drum corps, the shows were designed by people who did drum corps shows, but drum corps still had something special that bands and drill teams, no matter how good, didn't offer. I think it was due to a uniform look and that special sound. Adding woodwinds will not spark a renewal in drum corps. Also, kids in drum corps are musicians at heart. I'm willing to bet many young people in horn lines today can also play a sax, flute, or clarinet. A ban on woodwinds is probably not keeping anyone who is serious about drum corps out of drum corps. My understanding is that kids in drum corps today can often play two or three instruments well. Also, I've never heard of anyone who has refused to attend a show because oboe players are not allowed in drum corps or has left in disgust due to an absence of piccolos. Anytime an advancement is made in drum corps, something is lost. Color guards have many talented members and can dance a storm, but can they handle equipment for an entire show as in the past? The front ensemble adds a great deal to the nuances of music, but the powerful drum lines of the past were also remarkable. B-flat instruments do sound better and they are much more in tune than their Key of G counterparts, but what makes a drum corps distinct from the brass section of a band? Drum corps has never been static and in order to be competitive, change is inevitable. This was the case in the past and it's the case today. However, what needs to happen that drum corps needs to define what is essential for drum corps. Drum corps can still be innovative with parameters. Achieving excellence cannot be the only goal. Achieving excellence with boundaries is possible. Edited June 20, 2012 by Tim K 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GUARDLING Posted June 20, 2012 Share Posted June 20, 2012 (edited) I know that there's 26 pages of discussion, but I wanted to chime in here... ...as an old-time corps vet and current music educator, I am one of those who does influence in many ways whether the youngsters of today become aware of drum corps. If I don't like it anymore, I don't share it; many older folks do the same. Yes, that will change as we are replaced in education, but there is a disconnect. I do have to smile a little when my kids would rather watch BD '86, PR '89, etc. than almost any other recent shows. I took 40 to watch the show this past Sunday in Louisville, and they were bored for the most part...the only corps who really impressed them was Crown. and the 86 corps and 89 corps were also said to NOT BE DRUM CORPS of many fans who came long before that time.............we all like to think nothing can replace us and maybe alot of numbers cant be replaced and I by no means want to hear WWs but to think its gonna go away if I dont support it is crazy. As far as hop..if people want to stop hearing his opinions and rants....stop these threads...Do people actually realise that there are a few ( more than a few ) people on this message board that purposly put things up and sit in amusement watching the pot their stirrd up? Wanna stop those who are that obvious, DONT RESPOND AND FEED THE FIRE. I think all you do , ( even if we dont agree with the person ) is make their statements more impotant..ignore and it makes what they have to say or offer totally not important at all...JMO Edited June 20, 2012 by GUARDLING 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OrlandoContraAlum Posted June 20, 2012 Share Posted June 20, 2012 +1 billion, my friend. Well played. Also: :worthy: Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BroncoTrooper Posted June 20, 2012 Share Posted June 20, 2012 You obviously didn't read the rest of the post. This activity lives on legacy fan and alumni support. Add woodwinds and you're gonna have to replace a LOT more than was bargained for. That you can count on. And you are saying I didn't read your posts? Clearly you haven't read mine. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MikeD Posted June 20, 2012 Share Posted June 20, 2012 and the 86 corps and 89 corps were also said to NOT BE DRUM CORPS of many fans who came long before that time.............we all like to think nothing can replace us and maybe alot of numbers cant be replaced and I by no means want to hear WWs but to think its gonna go away if I dont support it is crazy. Lots of people thought that Bayonne was "not drum corps" when they first came out in the banana unis. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts
Join the conversation
You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.